Spewer

By: Derek Yu

On: May 6th, 2009

Spewer

Spewer is the latest release from Edmund McMillen, and in my opinion, his most mature… design-wise! Thematically, it’s a puzzle platform game about a lab animal that pukes and eats its own puke, which can easily serve as a metaphor for the way game designers are forced to consume and regurgitate each other’s ideas to get ahead, or how players are simply animals subjected to cruel experiments created by game developers. Or maybe it’s just gross and funny. Either way, the mechanic is fresh and is stretched very well across the game’s 50-odd levels. Big props to the game’s programmer, Eli Piilonen, who did some impressive work with the physics. It handles great.

The game runs in a browser and is also available as a standalone executable and Flash file.

TIGdb: Entry for Spewer

  • Timothy Hay

    Wow, this game is not fun at all.

  • Pitcock

    It’s one of these single screen flash platformers that feel like an extended tutorial.

  • alspal

    That was deep insight, lol.

  • http://www.djshardhouse.com Graham

    I’ve been playing this game for the past couple of days, and overall, it’s quite, quite good. The collision detection is slightly shoddy at certain places (the spikes, mainly), and the vomit sometimes feels like it doesn’t have enough power (even with the red), but it’s a damn fun time nonetheless.

  • sinoth

    The presentation and music are awesome. I especially love the strange lab locations in the background. The gameplay itself is so-so… 2D platformer with jetpack. Having to eat your ‘fuel’ adds a slight twist but not much.. just means you have to conserve your boost. The slowdown on some levels is unacceptable, and the collision detection with spikes is a bit flakey… you REALLY have to go out of your way to avoid them. Still a fun little distraction :)

  • Gainsworthy

    Aww man, no lurve from the commenters? I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, I think it’s pretty superb.

    It’ll stop being an “extened tutorial” and start kicking your arse in a few levels time. I promise.

    …Or maybe I’m just bad at the game.

  • DeathOfRats

    The game is fun, but some of the later levels are nearly impossible due to slow down. If anyone can pass ‘The Dive’, then you are a better man than I.

  • http://www.g4g.it Firesword
  • Paul Eres

    @ the first two comments: this place is becoming more and more a place to bash indie games, thanks for contributing to the r3volution. Your comments need more personal attacks on the developer, though.

    Anyway, despite my preference for his non-gross games like Aether over the ones that focus on gross things, I think this game is well done. I wish I could create games a tenth as competent in Flash.

  • poor guy

    Runs wayyyyy to slow(set graphics to minimum). What for a powerhouse does he expect me to have?
    Otherwise quite cool, but frustrating.

  • bateleur

    Love the concept – completely original as far as I’m aware. Also love the background graphics (I guess I’m lucky – my low end machine runs the game without problems on default settings).

    I must admit I haven’t got all that far through it yet. In common with some of Edmund’s earlier work I find my manual dexterity taxed to the limit long before the mental exercise gets going. Maybe I’m just getting old. ;-P

  • judgespear

    “this place is becoming more and more a place to bash indie games, thanks for contributing to the r3volution. Your comments need more personal attacks on the developer, though.”

    You’re right, those weren’t personal attacks. If they were, then maybe you’d have a point. Those were both legitimate complaints and opinions towards the game, that just happen to differ from your own (oh no!).

    There is no rule here saying that people have to like everything that is posted here and blindly compliment everything and give asspats to everyone. People are allowed to have whatever opinions they want towards anything. Perhaps you should understand that and stop trying to take it as a personal attack when it isn’t.

  • meepmeep

    *unlurks*

    Solely negative criticism is fine in the big wide world where many parties contribute, and each voice is one of millions, but imagine if you’d spent all the time making something like this, for no personal gain, submitted it to one of the very few communities of peers, and the first reaction you saw was ‘this was no fun’?

    That’s got to hurt.

    Learn constructive criticism. There’s real people and effort behind these games, and they owe you nothing.

    For what it’s worth, I really enjoyed the concept and execution – the graphics are lovely! It got far too hard for me though, and think it would make a better game with ‘puzzly’ rather than ‘fiddly’ levels.

    *relurks*

  • http://www.paul-jeffries.com Paul Jeffries

    It’s a pretty nice game; I particularly like the scientist guy who wanders around in the background.

    In terms of the character design, however… a pink blob who sucks stuff in and spews it out again… wow, that’s original

  • Paul Eres

    Yes, that was my point. Negative feedback is fine, as is not liking a game. But negative feedback that doesn’t suggest ways to make it better or why someone didn’t like it, and which just basically says the equivalent of “bad game” without elaboration is indistinguishable from trolling, especially when you know the developer of the game (Ed McMillen in this case) is likely to read the comments.

  • Edmund

    Hmmm yeah. though i have become very calloused by the Internet comments and reviews of my work over the past 8 years, it does honestly upset me to see these comments start out so strongly as a passive aggressive attempt to hurt the feeling of the games creators and or make yourself feel better somehow.. honestly im not sure how it works, or why it seems to be happening so much on TIG these days, but when the initial comments on TIG are actually worse then those on newgrounds.com… its a little sad.

    Im making games for you guys… im an entertainer im giving you free entertainment, no ones paying to play this game. Eli and i spent 3 months of our lives working on this game as a gift to people who appreciate innovative and indie video games asking for nothing in return, in what way have we upset you to the point of wanting to bash the game?

    im almost regretting writing this as i type this, but honestly im getting tired of reading this passive aggressive non constructive bullshit that people from our already tiny community are slinging at one another. its fucking depressing and doesn’t make any sense at all. we are a minority group here, the only leg up we have on the mainstream comes from is being united.. if you dont like something then dont play it, if your criticism is will aid the developer in someway then by all means post it.. but be nice about it, when a boy scout helps an old lady across the street he doesn’t tell her how she fucking stinks while doing it.

    when you tell someone something and you punch them in the face while doing it, how do you expect them to remember what you were telling them… all they are going to be thinking is “why the fuck did that asshole punch me in the face?”

    -Edmund

  • sinoth

    AGHHHHHHHHH!

    Got to the last few levels and GOD DAMMIT. Don’t ever combine precision platforming with iffy physics! And to add insult to injury, the lag becomes even more apparent during these precision maneuvers. BRB, I need to find some puppies to kick.

  • http://wherecouldtom.be Tom Sennett

    Paul, are those kinds of posts any less useful than a string of comments that really equate to “good game” with no elaboration?

    I think it’s great that we actually have people taking the time to bash indie games. It’s sure to keep us honest, at least.

    As for Spewer, I’m not sure the world needed yet another physics-based 2D platformer, but if you’re still attracted to that type of thing this game will not disappoint. Production values and style are top-notch, typical of Ed’s games.

    @meepmeep,
    I don’t buy that argument at all. In this case specifically, Edmund is not putting this up for “no personal gain”, he’s putting it up for ad revenue and to further establish his reputation. I believe he’s even making a living off his games these days. So to say he owes his players nothing is pretty off.

    And in a more general sense, there are too many people putting out too many great games these days to cut anybody slack. If you make a game and the first reaction you get is “this is no fun”, you probably did a shitty job of playtesting. If it’s a situation where the player didn’t give the game a chance, it’s still your fault. It’s on the game maker to produce a compelling reason to play the damn thing and to make it fun. You can’t blame a player for not wanting to play.

  • AmnEn

    Pro:
    + Nicely looking Flashgame
    + great humor

    Contra:
    - Why did it have to be puking?
    - Inexplicable Lag (PC kicks Crysis Ass but lags horribly in this game)

    ____________________

    Just as much as there is game bashing around here lately, a growing disgust towards gamers has emerged as well. More than once I’ve read comments from Developers along the lines of “fuck the players, they know nothing, they do not contribute”.
    Even worse, people have adopted an inability to accept other opinions as well. I haven’t made games but I’ve created a couple of lengthy modules for NWN with high level scripting so I’m not sure if I’m allowed to say it (another growing issue here, declaring other opinions void for whatever reason).
    Have we come to a point where a different opinion isn’t allowed? Well, that’s not exactly fair, praise is in fact allowed and welcomed, but someone not liking a game usually calls upon the forces of the Internature (oh dear, I’m going to hell for this pun) and summons a huge Shit Thunderstorm.
    Why?

    I firmly belief that comments along the lines of “I loved it” are just as good as comments stating “I hated it”. Yet stating the first turns TIGSource into a Kindergarden. Everytime.

  • Edmund

    i think this argument should be more focused on the art of not being a fucking asshole when being critical of someone’s work. criticism is fine when its valid.. but like i said there’s a tactful way to tell someone you feel like their work could be improved.

    i realize this is the Internet where no one can punch you in the face for being an asshole, but come on guys if your going to say “this games no fun” and nothing more, then why not just call me a Fag and get it over with… at least it would be more amusing.

  • http://wherecouldtom.be Tom Sennett

    I’m just saying, isn’t it at least cool that you can inspire haters? Your games are popular enough to spawn an anti-following. Ain’t no thang to get someone to give your game a thumbs-up. It’s something to draw the ire of internet trolls.

    I think it’s a sign of the community getting bigger, is all.

  • DeathOfRats

    Edmund, instead of focusing on the few comments that deride the game, why not focus on all the ones who are saying it’s fun/enjoyable?

    On a different note..Edmund, what machine are you running that would allow you to even attempt ‘The Dive’? I have a pretty beefy machine and it absolutely chokes on that level.

  • Gaz

    Meh, ran out of puke in the long jump level and quit the game. I probably won’t revisit it. I was playing from my laptop and it was annoying that I had to be precise with my aiming during the jump since I was using the touchpad. Cool enough idea, pretty, and the background were superb but in terms of fun it was lacking a bit.

  • Edmund

    im not as focused on my own haters as the haters of basicly everyone who gets a post on here or the indiegames blog these days… the last post about cactus’s new game was also quite depressing.

    Spewer will lag on levels that have 80-100 particals on screen at once the only thing that will help this is having over 2gigs of ram usually or just playing in the stand alone version. flash doesnt support any kind of graphics acceleration at all so physics driven games tend to eat up your cpu like mad.

    and yeah dont play this with a touch pad.

  • sinoth

    ‘Dive’ makes me want to die

  • judgespear

    “Non constructive” criticism goes both ways. Saying something like “this game is pretty good” is just as bad as saying “this game isn’t fun.”

    Besides, since when did a comments section have to be so specific anyway? These are comments not reviews. They’re meant to be short little drive-by remarks on what you think about whatever was posted.

  • http://www.paul-jeffries.com Paul Jeffries

    Edmund, surely you’ve been doing this long enough by now to expect this sort of thing? A lot of people are going to badmouth your game simply out of spite and jealousy. Deal with it. On the other hand, not everybody who genuinely dislikes the game is going to have the critical reasoning ability (or just the time and patience) to explain why in a concise and clear manner.

    Sure, you’ve taken the time and effort to put together a game and are allowing people to play it for free. That’s nice, but I’m sure you have reasons for doing so that are not wholly altruistic. It doesn’t make you Ghandi and it doesn’t mean that the whole internet suddenly exists for your benefit.

    So, ignore the ‘useless’ criticism and move on. All you do by complaining about it is make yourself look a bit of a tit and deflect the discussion from the game itself, which is surely not in your best interests.

  • judgespear

    I don’t see it as out of spite or jealousy. They’re just saying how they feel about the game.

    It’s nothing personal. I don’t see how people are interpreting those comments as an attack on the author.

  • judgespear

    Okay. Let’s say I told you “I really don’t like Halo. I think it’s a bad game.”

    Am I saying that because I want to spite Microsoft or Bungie or whoever developed it?

    No, I just don’t happen to like the game. The thought of whoever made the game never even enters my mind.

    It’s the same thing here. You’re taking this way too personally. You cannot expect everyone to like a certain thing, it’s impossible. People will always have different tastes and opinions. You shouldn’t take it as a personal insult, but rather something that should be expected.

  • Zaikman

    I don’t think the argument likening positive feedback to negative feedback is at all valid.
    If someone says ‘this game is pretty good’ then it’s just validation for the creator! It means you did what you set out to do in the first place – you made a fun game that people enjoy playing. That’s quite different from dishing out negative criticism with no feedback.

    I don’t think there needs to be a justification for praise, though it’s always welcomed so you know what to keep in mind for your next game.

    On an unrelated note…controls! Overall I was happy with how the character moved, but I had a really hard time getting used to pressing spacebar to suck up vomit. My left hand is already using WASD to move around, so requiring it to *also* suck up vomit was a bit frustrating.

    You might describe it as a physical cognitive dissonance. My left hand is already trying to hold one ‘idea’ (i.e. movement) while my right hand holds onto another (i.e. vomiting). But with the current control scheme the left hand is now responsible for two separate, unrelated actions. I realize that embedded Flash makes it impossible to use the right mouse button for inhalation; that’s very unfortunate, because I think that would be the ideal control scheme. Maybe you’re already doing something like this in the downloadable version.

  • Eli Piilonen

    i think ed is fag

  • http://www.paul-jeffries.com Paul Jeffries

    judgespear: Just to be clear (which I thought I was), I’m not saying that everybody who dislikes this game does so because they’re spiteful, jealous, stupid or lazy. Just that there are reasons why somebody might not take it upon themselves to give a full and detailed analysis of every freebie game they play.

  • Paul Eres

    I think “this game is good” without elaboration isn’t very helpful, but at least it’s not being a jerk.

    I mean, let’s say your kid sister showed you a drawing she just made. It’s pretty bad. But just saying “that’s a pretty ugly drawing, sis” would be a jerk thing to do. That’s all I mean and that’s all I think Edmund means. TIGSource comments used to be much more supportive of indie developers than they are now.

    And for those saying you get used to it — no, you don’t. You get a little used to it, but you never really get used to it. I’ve known a lot of great game developers who have given up making games entirely or said they might because of people being jerks to them with comments like the first two. I’ve been making and releasing games for more than 15 years now and I’m not used to it. People saying to tough it up and just take internet abuse probably haven’t ever released a game or had to deal with situations like this. It’s easy to suggest just taking it when you don’t have to deal with it yourself.

    And it’s certainly true that nobody has the obligation to give detailed criticism, but they should at least treat people like human beings.

  • Edmund

    Paul’s spot on. i was never attempting to bitch about what one or 2 people said to me on the Internet… im saying its sad to see this coming from this site. a site that was made to SUPPORT indie developers. and im not at all just talking about this post, honestly ive seen much much worse and soul crushing comments made by people on here that are amazingly negative for no reason at all.

    you need to understand to someone whos been doing this for a while these comments arnt as hurtful.. but to someone new to the scene blatantly non constructive criticism is very very hard to deal with and something you wont understand till you put your heart into something just to have someone tell you “it sucks”.

    ive always viewed TIG as a safe place for indie devs to gather and support one another. it would be nice to come back to that feeling of community we once had.

  • Paul Eres

    Yes, I’ve seen a lot worse here too, and I see it increasing over the years. That cactus video preview thread was really horrible. I mean, they were bashing it even before they played the game. It’s like some people are totally without empathy. We all inadvertently hurt others by careless words now and then, but many seem to be trying to do it intentionally.

  • http://www.distractionware.com Terry

    Couldn’t agree more. The frontpage comments here and on indiegames have been horribly depressing recently. It’s sad. :(

  • http://anotherearlymorning.com Alex Schearer

    To be honest I think you protest to much, Edmund. The negative comments didn’t really seem very negative and in fact the “it feels like an extended tutorial” comment was very useful feedback. As others have said negative feedback is just par for the course (certainly it was the first thing I got for my games), and why is this a problem? It’s a product of a bigger community with different tastes in games, which is a good thing as far as I’m concerned. To echo someone above me, I think this type of thing keeps us honest. In my experience the forums are a better environment for hugs and such.

  • http://anotherearlymorning.com Alex Schearer

    PS To end on a positive note I thought that the game was really well done, very polished. The backgrounds were truly excellent and the physics for the vomit was pretty sweet, too. I’m looking forward to seeing what you do next!

  • Edmund

    ill state again that im not talking about the spewer comments as much as the over all negativity of the comments on almost every post on TIG and Indiegames blog these days.

  • http://www.daintyrhino.com Dave Cobb

    I think the game’s a blast with that whole Kirby gone horribly twisted vibe. With some optimization for the slowdown (maybe Flash isn’t a good fit for this game if it can’t handle 100 particles?) this game would be fantastic. The platforming gets tricky enough without the performance screwing you up. Overall: needs some tech lovin’ but some really solid design going on.

    Constructive criticism: not that hard.

  • Paul Eres

    “why is this a problem?”

    Because people are giving up game design or are discouraged from making new games because of feedback like this. New developers releasing their first few games can be particularly affected by this. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve seen developers go into near-depressions because of overly harsh negative feedback. Even good developers who create good games aren’t immune to it – the developer of Iji is one example.

  • Derek

    I take some responsibility for the backlash against cactus and some of the other popular developers on the site – not for any of the shitty comments themselves, but because I realize that in trying to promote these developers, whom I genuinely care for and admire, I crossed some sort of line with people who don’t. i.e. “for every action there is…” I guess their problem with TIGSource is that it’s too instinctual and not as objective as they’d like or as in line with their own tastes as they’d like. Well, that’s never really been the point of TIGSource, but I’m always open to more voices on the front page, so long as you can take the boxing gloves off long enough to type a decent sentence or two. If you’re interested enough in the site to terrorize the comments, I’d advocate mustering up the courage to write an article instead.

  • Glaiel Gamer

    Criticism I was given turned my soul rock hard and now it doesn’t even phase me

    (concept for a pretentious game perhaps?)

  • http://anotherearlymorning.com Alex Schearer

    Paul, I take what you say seriously at the same time I see criticism (even if it is one dimensional) as part of the process of releasing your work out to the public. However my real take away from this discussion is that we need to decide what sort of community/culture we want and then take active steps to encourage it. I think Derek’s comment starts to get to that, too.

    Perhaps a second part of the solution would be to add some guidelines for commenting and to moderate the comments more aggressively.

  • Paul Eres

    I’m not really sure how it can be improved. Negative comments feel inevitable on the internet. Perhaps a note like: “remember that the developers of the games featured on this site will likely read your comments, so please be constructive in your criticism” may help though.

    A lot of people don’t actually know that. They’re used to commenting on mainstream games, where the developers have little to no contact with their players, and where the game is owned by faceless board of directors, with the intention of making as much money as possible. So in that context, saying a game sucks is unlikely to bother anyone. Whereas indie games are loved like children, telling someone their game sucks should be handled as carefully as telling them their son or daughter sucks.

  • Teknogames/Beau Blyth

    It was fun, but sometimes just plain frustrating with the lag and the spike collisions. I got rather far but ended up quitting after getting to the level where you have to coax a pill out of the grates. If the game was speedier I think I might have kept at it.

  • louis

    I recognize (or at least I fear) I have been one of the main offenders in the recent Cactus thread, but can I still comment that I found this really excellent and fun as hell?

    Derek mentioned the important taste factor, and I acknowledge that Edmund’s games are more my bag than Mr. Söderström’s. I have been visiting TIGSource daily for almost two years now, so I think I know what to expect (I have also started promoting indies on my French film site, so I guess that’s my contribution right there…). I guess the other day I just felt like expressing for once my disappointment at not getting any news from a project which has got me all worked up, and somehow it snow-balled into something I didn’t expect. I apologize again for this, even though I still think that neglecting news of your big works is likely to get you the kind of “snarky” remark I made.

    As for Spewer, slow-down and all, I just got a big kick out of the difficulty curve and slick variations in the gameplay… A lot of work in this, and it shows! (but am I allowed to say I like it better than Meat Boy?…)

  • Edmund

    “but am I allowed to say I like it better than Meat Boy”

    No

  • louis

    Ok.

    But seriously, let me get this straight so that I don’t mess up again: is this really the kind of thing that you or any other game maker over here would take offense in?

  • LePuma

    I also agree with Paul Eres, and think that a little more positivity in the comments towards game creators is in order.
    Gish was a really great game. Thank you Edmund, for giving us Gish.

  • DeathOfRats

    I agree we need to support indie developers, but please tell me you don’t mean we aren’t suppose to point out when a game isn’t working or has flaws?

    I think if a game is good, genuinely good, then there just needs to be more people who will vocalize their opinion rather than keeping it to themselves.

  • Flamebait

    Okay, so I got to the level Recap, and found I didn’t like this at all. My issues:
    -To get killed, your center must cross the boundary of the left grinder, while only your bounds must cross the right one. That part of the level is symmetrical, so an unassisted jump on that side should be just as easy. The death point on the left one isn’t totally consistent either.
    -Failing jumps, as frequently do (they require particularly expert timing, and I don’t excel at platformers), is a major time-waster. Is it better to go down and eat some puke, or just restart the level? Why should that question even be relevant?
    -Prior to this, I got stuck on the level pictured here on TIGSource. I’m not often stumped by games, yet it really didn’t occur to me until after my first play that you can swim upwards through puke.

  • Edmund

    its simple. say what ever the hell you guys want.. just dont be dicks about it.

    its not any more complex then that. only say things youd say to people faces… and remember what i fucking look like in person!

  • Zixinus

    Not a bad game and I certainly wasted an afternoon playing it.

    A few minor ires:

    - The white spew is really annoying, as it really lacks precision in both making it and swimming in it. Levels where making a correct amount of white spew are quite annoying.
    - The slowdowns. Even when I set down the quality, it can get really slow.
    - The level “Pascal’s law” is really dickish, as the liquid physics are very iffy. That’s as far as I got and being a bonus chapter

    What I did like:
    - spewing and flooding everything.
    - some of the puzzles.
    - the story. Here I thought was another cliché story of evil scientists but I was pleasantly disappointed in the end.
    -

  • Paul Eres

    Yeah, my point was more about the tone than the content. Examples:

    [being a jerk:] What’s up with all the hype about this game? It’s just horrible, every aspect of this game feels like it was designed by a retard.

    [not being a jerk:] I didn’t enjoy this game, guess it’s not for me, couldn’t get into it. Didn’t really find anything enjoyable about it, even though I tried, but it’s nice to see others at least are enjoying it.

  • Acid and Fire kill me

    You say not to be a dick.. but then you say “remember what I look like in person!”

    Well, you look like a dick, with that beard and your stupid gape-mouth smile.

    And we shouldn’t treat you like a dick? You’re talking in circles now.

  • leave url

    [being a jerk:] Wow this game is super good! Everything about it is perfect. Hell yeah!

    [not being a jerk:] I liked this game very much right from the beginning. Didn’t really find anything negative about it, even though I tried, but it’s nice to see other people aren’t enjoying it.

  • Paul Eres

    [being a jerk:] ^^^

  • Toby

    Tried it, and found it rather dull. It doesn’t seem to bring anything new to the table, and as a whole, I fail to see the point of shock art, no matter what form of media it falls under.

  • AmnEn

    Since my other comment got censored out, even though it basically said the same thing like a couple of other comments in here already, I’ll just rephrase it again and since most of my points have already been made by others, I’ll provide new content too. Woohoo.
    This time with a candy coating so no ones feelings might get hurt by the big bad keen words, uhhh. Well scratch that, if you feel hurt by these words, instead of throwing a Tantrum, think about why they hurt you. Or: If you think my words apply to you, congratulations, they do. If not, that’s cool, they weren’t meant for you anyways.

    There’s an increasing trend in Indiegaming, one quite reminiscent of the same movement in Indiemusic. And that’s a certain “holier than thou” attitude. Or perhaps the words “acting like a Rockstar” can more thoroughly describe it.
    Constant celebration and patting each other on the backs, as well as sugar coated opinions have led to a big overinflation of egos. These overinflated egos have tremendous trouble accepting that someone might in fact not like their game.

    I’m sure their skin is tough enough, the issue is that they’ve lost contact with the ground. They’ve been celebrated for a too long time.

    Every couple of weeks we get to read reports about how totally “awesome” this or that person acted, often making a one-man or one-woman show out of themselves.
    So here’s the question, when did Indiegaming and thus, Tigsource (as some kind of mirror) change from “making interesting games for gamers” into “being a celebrity”? When did the person and their feelings become more important than their creations? Indiegaming is on the road to falling into the pit, sharing antics with Derek Smart while being brandished with the reputation of a John Romero.

    If you guys want that, totally awesome. Go for it. Enjoy your own Downfall while it still glitters glory.

  • Jotaf

    @AmnEn: “Every couple of weeks” is about 1 in every 50 posts — the other 49 are about games. Derek even bashed a few guys (haha!) for acting like they’re total rock stars. I wouldn’t say that kind of attitude is becoming a problem.

    Concerning the other discussion: Compare comments #1 and #2 with #4 and #5. The last ones talked about the parts they didn’t like in the game, and they were pretty direct. The first ones just said “yawn it’s bad”. Kids these days; go back to your room and stop annoying grown ups, will ya?

  • Titties

    haha titties

  • Vince

    @AmnEn: So true, unfortunately.

    Some indie sites feel like a few individuals celebrating themselves. The most hilarious I remember was some guy playing a game and being filmed. There was a whole post about some guy playing a trivial game someplace. Not a review or game presentation, just one guy playing some game.

    Then there’s the constant celebration of boring games, just because made it or played it. There’s a whole series of:
    is thinking about a new game!
    OMG
    is starting a new game!
    Yay
    made a new game and I have no idea what it is and I’ve never player it but it ROOOOOOOOOCKS!

    This ego-cult is getting annoying.

  • Vince

    Yea apparently the comment function filtered out my “insert name here”s.

  • http://pqgames.wordpress.com mirosurabu

    Hmmm.. Okay, I’ll first comment to meta-conversation dialogue we have here.

    I think it’s clear that hate comments are hurting developers. They do because they are hard to comprehend and most often because developers are immune to positive comments. I think it’s also clear that there is distinction between hate comment and “don’t like” review. The first one is harsh negative criticism, while the second one is nice constructive negative criticism. They both cause developers to feel uneasy, but it’s the destructive one which is very troubling.

    That aside – it’s observable that most negative review comments come only after the community or developer hype over something or when we have a relatively well known face (like Edmund, for example). You’ll rarely see a negative review of unknown game with not many positive comments. Further, most of those “negative reviewers” don’t review all the games they don’t like. How many times people just didn’t bother to review those flash games they didn’t like?

    So another observable thing is that people normally don’t post “don’t like” comments.

    This poses an interesting question: why is there tendency to negatively review hyped game than unknown, neutral or randomly chosen one? Why negative review at all?

    1. IT’S BECAUSE DEVELOPERS ASKED FOR REVIEW

    You were not asked for review. So you can’t use that as excuse.

    2. IT’S BECAUSE I WANT DEVELOPERS TO IMPROVE. IF THERE IS NO NEGATIVE CRITIC THEY WON’T IMPROVE

    The Internet may not be the main location where developers seek for improvement. Because there are positive comments only it does not mean they won’t improve. At the end, they probably didn’t ask you for help.

    3. IT’S BECAUSE POSITIVE REVIEWS ARE EXAGGERATED AND I WANT TO BALANCE THEM AND OPEN DEVELOPERS’ EYES

    I agree that positive reviews can be exaggerated. But to assume that developers are not aware of that without asking them directly is bad. Most developers I know are aware of this.

    4. IT’S BECAUSE IT’S NOT FAIR THAT GAMES MADE BY POPULAR FIGURES HAVE ADVANTAGE OVER GAMES MADE BY UNKNOWN ONES

    That’s how it works. I don’t know how you can change that, though.

    5. IT”S BECAUSE IT MAKES ME SAD I AM NOT POPULAR FIGURE

    Well, well, now we have a fair comment here. Learn and experiment with game design; be persistent; and you will eventually do something. But don’t be a jerk in Internet comments.

    Cheers

  • judgespear

    I still fail to see how not liking a game has anything to do with person who made said game.

  • judgespear

    I guess it’s sort of like this. You are posting games by people who you like, who are sort of like celebrities to you.

    But they only hold importance to whoever knows who they are. I mean, not everyone knows these people or will just like the game because it is made by (insert name here).

    There are people who will just play the game and be like, “I didn’t like the game and I don’t see why people hyped this so much.”

    And it looks like they’re flaming, because how the hell can they not like the game. It’s made by (insert name here)! Who doesn’t like (insert name here)?! S/he’s such a cool person!

    You know. Most people don’t care who the game is made by. I know when I play something, I hardly even know who made it half the time I ever play it. Any average player out there is not so savvy about who makes their stuff, they just play the game itself.

    These comments did not contain any personal attacks. They just remarked on how they felt about the game. I agree about the whole “rockstar” attitude. But please, don’t take it so personally because you’re making a big deal over something that really isn’t.

  • judgespear

    (Sorry for triple post.)

    Anyway, I finally got to sit down and play the game (the computers at work were too slow) and it’s pretty good.

    Nothing special or anything, but it’s a pretty nice little flash platform game. I can see how it feels like an “extended tutorial” but then again a lot of games are like that (i.e. Portal), so that didn’t really bother me.

    I still stand by the fact that the reactions to the comments were a bit disproportional and overblown though.

  • Anonymous

    Have the editors thought about turning comments off?

    At least it could make more people to sign up at the forums.

  • Anonymous

    Have the editors thought about turning comments off?

    At least it could make more people to sign up at the forums.

  • sinoth

    Turning off comments is a bad idea. I bet a significant amount of readers only casually visit the site and never touch the forums. Trying to force them to the forums won’t work.

  • miro

    @judgespear:

    Comments were related to overall negativity on TIGS, not just spewer comments.

  • Raiten

    I think comments about my games or me meant to denigrate me don’t hurt a tenth as the one’s who aren’t. I mean, they are REAL, you know they meant what they said not because out of personal spite or wanting to hurt you, but because they actually truly didn’t like (or even hated) your game. Isn’t that worse?

    Like this comment I found just randomly, Googling one of my games:

    “[The game in question] is by far the worst game I’ve ever played. I was lucky, for there was a baby nearby upon which I was able to exalt my anger on.

    Srsly, You Have to Burn The Rope is amazing, and Raiten’s piece of **** made me hurt so hard. I don’t know if I can ever look at [another game I made] the same way, considering he’s such a ****ing unfunny asshole.”

  • frst

    I really enjoyed the game, *love* the artwork. (but I love all physics sims, hell, used industry-level fluid solvers, finite element analysis tools as pastime.) But fluid as an important aspect in gameplay still gets me (as in bloody zombies).
    However I thought that there was going to be an underlying story (i.e. saw just the tentacle like hairs in first levels, then the professor, the experimental setup etc.), got very excited, but although I’m in mid-chapter 3, the lack of story so far was disappointing, although I suspect the story will become apparent towards the end.
    I think the game can be a little less tedious and more fun by changing the game mechanics somehow, spew runs out pretty fast without you being able to enjoy it, then you have to eat it again, and mostly make accurate jumps etc, becomes just your basic platformer which runs too slow.
    Edmund, you probably know, and probably used it, but if not, clavet et al., “Particle-based Viscoelastic Fluid Simulation” is relatively very fast for fluid sims (my prehistoric laptop can run 1500-1800 particles with my implementation of pvfs). THAT slow gameplay with just 20-100 particles means either the algorithm you are using is very slow, or that flash was a bad choice for this game. just trying to help, the game really has potential.

  • judgespear

    Raiten – Are you trying to pull a strawman?

  • judgespear

    If it’s not, and if you’re being serious. How is that worse? You can’t accept the fact that there might be some people don’t like or really care for your game?

    It’s pretty much a basic fact of life. With anything in the world, there is always bound to be people who like something and those that don’t.

    The mature thing would be to accept the fact that you can’t please everyone, not get worked up over something which you can’t really do anything about.

  • judgespear

    And besides, what you posted was a personal attack. It had nothing to do with whatever anyone on this comments page was talking about.

  • Jay

    great game! but flash just scks as a game platform performance-wise

  • http://metanetsoftware.com/blog raigan

    “It was fun, but sometimes just plain frustrating with the lag and the spike collisions. I got rather far but ended up quitting after getting to the level where you have to coax a pill out of the grates. If the game was speedier I think I might have kept at it.”

    THAT is a good example of criticism that’s useful, not spiteful.

    There is _totally_ a huge difference between disliking or not getting a game, and just ragging on a game. If you don’t have something *USEFUL* to say, i.e maybe a small change to something would have really improved the game for you, or mostly it was good but X ruined it, etc.., then what is the point of writing anything?

    Just posting your personal opinion of something, good or bad, is really useless. Although I’m guilty of this too.. I guess I just feel like if what’s written is meant to encourage the developer, then that’s useful. If what’s written is meant to provide helpful feedback/criticism, also useful. If you’re writing just to discourage the person, well.. that’s a dick move.

  • http://metanetsoftware.com/blog raigan

    And to all the people hating on cactus or whoever: just make a better game, and you’ll be more famous. It’s really that simple, seriously!

    The internet doesn’t discriminate. I guarantee that if someone dropped 20 amazing games (or even just decently interesting/weird games like ikiki’s) in derek’s lap, he would post about them.

    Now, if there exists someone who has made several games which are just as distinct and interesting as cactus’, but for some reason is languishing in obscurity and is frustrated with not having their efforts recognized, I could sympathize with that.

    But I doubt such a person exists. So it seems hard to justify the hate, which I guess is just a combination of jealousy and/or outrage at the patterns of behaviour in our society (wherein certain individuals tend to be lionized, perhaps beyond what is reasonable).

    The latter is understandable, but misguided since it’s hardly the individual’s fault that media/etc have chosen to focus on them. Also it seems like it would be better to start with the _big_ offenders like Hollywood, before worrying about people who are essentially internet-famous among a small subculture.

    Cactus is a bazillion times more worthy of attention than Cliffy B! If you need to rag on a celebrity game developer, why not talk shit on http://www.cliffyb.com/ ?

  • judgespear

    What does this have to do with Cactus?

  • judgespear

    Let’s just try to talk about things in a general sense, especially considering that this post has nothing to do with Cactus or people being jealous of how popular he is.

    I don’t know about you, but I judge games based on the games themselves and how they play. I don’t look at whoever makes the game and base my whole opinion on that. And neither did the first two comments on this page. They were just opinions on the game itself.

  • AmnEn

    Don’t feed the Troll (raigan).

  • rodnonymous

    is hating on WASD with no option to reconfigure a valid complaint? Because seriously, fuck WASD. I don’t used WASD to navigate any of the menus in any of my other programs. It’s almost as unappealing as forcing me to use vi bindings.

  • Edmund

    judgespear, please put a link to something you’ve made please.

  • Acid and Fire kill me

    Wow, this has got to be the most effective trolling I’ve ever done. Usually, TIGS comments start with “first lololol panda” or something so I figured I’d mix it up by posting something dismissive and goony, and boy did it work.

    I guess I’m one ‘full’ troll. Not that I usually troll, but I thought maybe it was better than just another memey first post.

    In-joke ire aside… this game wasn’t too terribly engaging. Flash is a really terrible way to make a game. Yes, I know, ad revenue is important, so let’s put all of our games in an environment that everyone can access, etc… but if 75% of people can’t run it properly, who cares if 95% of people can access it?

    The graphics are nice and original, as usual for this guy. The sound is fine. The concept is unique in one way: you have to eat your energy back up in order to jump again. That’s roughly the opposite of fun. (See: Super Mario Sunshine)

    And yeah, the celebrity attitude gets a little bit annoying, but it’s not really Edmund’s fault in this case. He’s not a douchenozzle like J.Blow in that way, I don’t think. It’s just the fanboyism of bloggers and some posters that gives people that impression. The only issue I take with him is his claims of altruism. You’re doing this because you’d rather not work, and it allows you to express yourself artistically, which is fun, and doesn’t really feel like work. You make some money, get some e-cred, etc. Don’t act like Mother Theresa here, really.

    Cheers.

  • http://N/A Johnny B Goode

    I’m not seeing how 3 less than helpful comments (that are devoid of profanity or personal attacks much less) out of a grand total of 50+ is somehow “The site going downhill” and the end of constructive criticism.

    If anything both sides have a lack of constructive commentary. The negative ones just being more concise and blunt. Sorry but, I’m not a big fan of the “Hugbox” style of community. That’s how deviantart works after all. And it does nothing for the community, developer or fan included.

    I’m not saying everyone should be tearing everything apart to it’s basest componants or whatnot at all. But when you have to start a large strawman discussion irrelevent to the topic at hand because 3-4 people didn’t like it then that’s just silly and a little bit insecure.

    Imagine if an artist had to get into a talk with each person in a gallery who didn’t like a piece of his? Even if they were in the small minority it’d leave him no time whatsoever to showcase the positive or discuss anything with the people who are actually enjoying it.

    Or if you had to argue with each person in a crowd who booed you at a show. It just becomes a redundant circle of negativity on either side. Now being able to roll with that or take it in stride is an excellent trait to have. You let the criciism stick and make you think, and the “herp a derp” comments slide right off of you as you let them slip into obscurity.

    Sorry Ed, I love your games but I have to play devil’s advocate on this one.

  • Paul Eres

    re johnny b goode – we are talking about the comments in general, not just the ones in this particular post or even this particular blog.

    re “judgespear, please put a link to something you’ve made please.”

    that was exactly what i wondered. it’s very easy to say that insults about things you’ve created don’t matter when you haven’t experienced it.

  • MisterX

    To simply restate what others said before: I liked Spewer, although it does indeed not feel all that “fresh” anymore, still I played it all the way through to the last levels. The lag really is a problem (I have 2GB of RAM and am playing the stand-alone version) and I felt that while most levels were rather easy, some of those last ones were just too frustrating. It cost me some effort to try “Holy Tears” time and time again, as frustrating as it was, because I didn’t want to fail so close to the end, but “The Dive” ultimately made me stop. It was just too hard for me, seemed to be very much based on luck, and on top of that.. well, damn, it’s very hard! :)

    I always like it, though, when I get varied powers to toy around with, and Spewer certainly delivered there. I especially liked the fluffy foam, and seeing Gish again when Spewer already reminded me of him was a nice touch, as well :)
    Lastly, I’d say it was a bit too old-fashioned for me, but despite the main flaws (lag, difficulty towards the end) it was simply enjoyable :)

  • AmnEn

    > that was exactly what i wondered. it’s very easy to say that insults about things you’ve created don’t matter when you haven’t experienced it.

    And this is a fine example of the kind of attitude I’m talking about. There are two theories, which I call the big two.

    * It’s art/protest; And as such you’re not allowed to have an opinion.
    * Do something better; aka unless you’re one of the chosen ones or our fanbois, shut up.

    Both arguments are about as silly as they can get. Those are “dead horse” arguments, all around 360° kill them all arguments. All one has to do is use one of the two to invalidate someone elses opinion.
    That is if those two arguments weren’t so inherently silly and desperate to begin with.

    Art isn’t above criticism. And Art must not function as a shield for mediocre works. Its the same really with war movies, by simply attaching the word “Anti War Movie” they turn from mindless gorefest into educational works. They’re still a mindless gorefest at heart though. Same goes for games classified as Art, they’re still a game at heart. And it’s that game element that is vulnerable, despite being labeled as Art.

    And I’m willing to bet a months wage in saying that there is not a single person on earth that has not seen one of his/her creations being met with negative opinion. It’s a very natural process of growing up, and while I’m aware that one of the internets most famous insults is “grow up, kiddie”, I’m afraid I have to point out that this specific element of achieving maturity comes quite early in the human lifecycle. In fact, before humans even can read and write.

  • AmnEn

    Seeing as this has nothing to do with Spewer anymore and is about a completely different topic, it might not be a bad idea to move the discussion into the Forums.

  • DeathOfRats

    Please don’t start the whole ‘until you release a game you don’t have ground to criticize mine’ argument. Any gamer has the right to give his/her opinion about a game posted on a public forum. Whether you read it or accept it, is your choice.

  • Onymous

    Paul Eres:
    **I mean, they were bashing it even before they played the game.**

    Didn’t you just say in the Glum Busters thread that you don’t care about gameplay anyway? Why isn’t that valid when the comments are *bashing* a game instead of orgasming over it?

  • judgespear

    Why is this about me all of a sudden? I haven’t insulted anyone. You’re trying to pull an “ad hominem” argument on me. For what?

    I said that I enjoyed your game.

    However, I don’t like the fact that people are getting all up in arms over two or so comments, which people are putting all sorts of blame on for problems related to this site, and various other things that are completely unrelated to the topic at hand.

  • judgespear

    Furthermore, I don’t like the notion that if you dislike something (which keep in mind; I didn’t, I enjoyed this game) you shouldn’t say anything.

    It’s like the old saying (usually attributed to Voltaire) “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

    And also I take issue to the fact that many of you are making it seem like: liking a game = attacking the author. Which just isn’t true.

    It’s possible to dislike a game without it having anything to do with personal attacks or the like.

  • judgespear

    err… not liking a game, rather.

    damn, I triple posted again.

  • Edmund

    judgespear, please put a link to something you’ve made.

    ive been reading your comments on TIG for a while now and am genuinely interested in what you’ve made.

    please show us your hand.

  • DeathOfRats

    Edmund, stop. That’s like telling a film critic he can’t critique a film because he’s never made one.

  • judgespear

    And what if I were to tell you I don’t have any games?

    Would that make anything I just said any less valid?

    Because from what I understand, I haven’t said anything related to game making.

    All my comments so far have pretty much been something to the effect of me telling you to calm down, to stop overreacting and taking things personally, and that people should be allowed to say that they don’t dislike something.

  • judgespear

    Er, that they dislike something, rather.

    Damn it, I can’t do this anymore. This is so pointless that I am hardly even keeping track of what I’m saying anymore.

  • miro

    DAMN! THE TWO COMMENTS ARE NOT THE REAL ISSUE. THE REAL ISSUE IS THE OVERALL NEGATIVITY ON TIGSOURCE LATELY. LOOK AT THE CACTUS COMMENTS. LOOK AT THE COMMENTS ON JUDITH. HOW MANY TIMES WE HAVE TO REPEAT THIS?

    Okay, that was fake yelling.

    Let’s continue this on forums or wherever else.

  • judgespear

    Those are not related to this though and if you really want to discuss the negativity of that particular comment section, then please discuss it over there. Don’t come here and try to pin the blame on two unrelated comments.

  • Edmund

    the point im making here is that you have no idea what it feels like to make something then have someone be a dick and bash your work for no reason other then to make himself feel better.

    and again.. i not talking about this post. this is about the over all negative comments being made on tig and other indie blogs these days. this post as just a launching pad for these things.

    but in all reality, a real critics opinion is only valid if they have a real understanding of what they are critiquing.

    anyone can give their jackass opinions about something.. but that opinion only holds up if they also have experience in the subject..

  • http://anotherearlymorning.com Alex Schearer

    Started a thread on this in the forums: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=6121.0

  • judgespear

    Let’s go back a second. This whole thing all started with this:

    “the first two comments: this place is becoming more and more a place to bash indie games, thanks for contributing to the r3volution. Your comments need more personal attacks on the developer, though.”

    Which was completely unwarranted considering that those two comments were just general comments about the game itself and were not personal attacks or anything like the sort posted on the comments section about Cactus, Judith, etc.

  • Glaiel Gamer

    bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker mushroom mushroom

  • judgespear

    Anyway, let’s stop this. This is completely pointless. And at this rate, we’re pretty much beating a dead horse now.

  • :U

    yeah well games are for losers, im gonna go pump iron and play rock n’ roll musics on my nuclear guitar

  • moi

    IN THE ASS.

    Also: WASD

  • http://N/A Johnny B Goode

    Annnd it comes full circle with the logical fallacy so old and trite, that tenacious D of all people made fun of it.

    That’s like the horse rising from the dead and beating -you-.

    “You create something!”

  • Kobel

    I find it interesting that almost without exception EVERYONE in this thread interpreted ‘I’d like to see a game you’ve made’ as ‘YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO AN OPINION UNTIL YOU MAKE SOMETHING BETTER’.

    Some people just love the self-righteousness like crack cocaine don’t they?

  • sinoth

    rabble rabble rabble

  • Rob

    You trolls are all dicks. You should get off the internets.

    kthxbi

  • Malasdair

    to get back on track:

    this game is fantastic!, but the “Holy Tears” level is the hardest goddam thing.

  • judgespear

    Kobel. It’s a red herring either way, and besides I wasn’t even expressing an opinion but rather sticking up for those trying to express contrary opinions.

  • judgespear

    To be honest, this whole thing is stupid. I feel like I wasted my time when this all could have been avoided by doing something very simple which is to accept the fact that not everyone is going to like something.

    I’m not going to debate this any further. This is just pointless.

  • Ben

    I just finished. Thanks for making a neat game dudes!

  • Sparky

    This is a neat idea for a game. I haven’t completed it yet, but I’ve seen some fun stuff so far. I like the cloud particles particularly.

  • cm

    I wish my guy would jump every time I pressed the jump key, not just when he feels like it.

    Pretty fun nonetheless. I’m on level 38.

  • cm

    Oh god I suddenly can’t get through that 1-square gap in the final level. I mean I hold the right button and everything but he just doesn’t move that way. It was working fine before. I hate this game.

  • Raiten

    Judgespear, why would I be “pulling a strawman”?

    I think it’s worse to know somebody really thinks my game sucks, than to suspect they are just dissing it because they dislike my “internet persona”, or are out to hurt me.

    “The mature thing would be to accept the fact that you can’t please everyone, not get worked up over something which you can’t really do anything about.”

    What the fuck, I’m not a five year old. I don’t get worked up over it, I know you can’t please everyone and I’m not trying to, but if you had ever made a game and had it criticized online you’d KNOW what we’re talking about. It’s not about how mature you are or aren’t, having people throw crap at you or stuff you’ve spent a lot of time on IS more or less hurting. I’ve gotten used to it, but it’s still not something I enjoy. If you don’t even realize that, why are you taking part in the discussion?

    “I’ve got hurt feelings, I’ve got hurt feelings…”

  • Raiten

    I’m definitely not saying that people who haven’t made games shouldn’t comment on games, just that somebody who hasn’t bathed in shit should tell themselves they know what it’s like.

  • Raiten

    “Shouldn’t tell themselves”

  • jimmykane

    Observation: this thread would be about one third of the size if people posted everything they wanted to say all at once.

  • Paul Eres

    “Didn’t you just say in the Glum Busters thread that you don’t care about gameplay anyway? Why isn’t that valid when the comments are bashing a game instead of orgasming over it?”

    “It’s art/protest; And as such you’re not allowed to have an opinion. Do something better; aka unless you’re one of the chosen ones or our fanbois, shut up.”

    I realize language is subtle, but it helps to give the other person the benefit of the doubt in their claims and not to make them out to be crazy.

    Saying that you don’t really understand the problem with nasty comments if you’ve never been personally attacked for a game you made isn’t equivalent to saying you can’t hold negative opinions about a game or that you should shut up if you’ve never made a game.

    Saying that you value the atmosphere in a particular game more than the gameplay and enjoyed the game just for the environments alone doesn’t mean you don’t care about gameplay or were orgasming over a game.

    Expressing profuse enjoyment of a game isn’t just “the opposite” of a personal attack on a game’s developer. The opposite of profuse delight isn’t “hating” a game, it’s not enjoying a game, being frustrated or bored by it. There are many games which I don’t enjoy, there are many games that frustrate me or bore me. But that doesn’t lead me to hate the game and its developers.

    So in simple words, what I have the problem with is when someone *hates* a game and its game developer just on the basis of not enjoying their game. You can not enjoy a game or criticize it without having to hate on it.

    Anyway, I’d prefer further discussions to go on in the forum because this post is getting old and I may not check it again: there are a couple of forum threads about this in the forum, so please respond to me there if you feel the need to.

  • Eric McQuiggan

    I like it! It’s fun, It’s got a bit of a Bloody Zombies vibe to it.

  • Donald Futers

    The stupidity of the majority of these comments is depressing and embarrassing.

    I kinda get where you’re all coming from with the accusations of back-patting and so on. Western society encourages being a dick to everyone else to get ahead, so it is understandable that you’d interpret a community in which people try to be nice to each other as being a sort of circle-jerk.

    It’s still a completely incorrect analysis of the situation, though, and, as understandable as it is, it’s a shame that you see the world in that way. You’re missing the point. Yes, the members of TIGSource (and the general community of indie developers) do tend to try to be pleasant and friendly with one another and, yes, they tend to be willing to help each other out rather than going into direct competition with one another. That *doesn’t* mean that they never criticise each other’s work or activities – it just means that any criticisms are (usually) made in a constructive, intelligent manner which, essentially, is not overflowing with dickishness.

    Try to imagine that you can bear to be nice to other people and you’ll find that they might even be able to bear being nice right back. Most of humanity’s problems would be solved if people just wouldn’t be dicks to each other. That’s probably never going to happen, but that’s no reason not to try to help the cause along.

  • Raiten

    “Observation: this thread would be about one third of the size if people posted everything they wanted to say all at once.”

    It would have been two comments shorter if you hadn’t made that comment.

    The size would be the same, you just have to scroll a few extra inches, is that so horrible?

  • jimmykane

    Raiten: Just making a joke, man. Calm down.

  • Cliftor

    I’ve enjoyed this game very much so far.

    It starts off as a simple rocket pack platformer where you can recollect your spent ammo, but I love how gradually more and more things can be done with our vomit. The gradual addition of new elements in bite sized levels is a format I’m fond of because it’s addicting. I keep playing to see how I’ll be expected to use my growing list of abilities next, or to see a new ability.

    The graphics and physics are excellent too. The flavor backgrounds and “end of room” reports with the “mad science” evaluations are hilarious.

    My biggest criticisms:
    -It’s Flash. This is more a hate of flash in general as a platform, though.
    -Collision detection with the spikes can be VERY spotty sometimes, like “wtf, I was no where near it” spotty. For what is sometimes a precision platformer, this is a big negative.

    Overall it’s still holding my interest. I still lol sometimes too, that’s a great sign. Or maybe a sign my childish sense of humor is still intact.

    Good job, keep em coming.

  • Cliftor

    tl;dr version:

    It’s good enough that I would pay for a retail version, if the issues were ironed out.

  • Edmund

    Yeah currently im seeing what can be done with the spike issues, this was actually a bigger problem while testing that i thought we had fixed but i guess we should have tested on new testers to see how they thought the spikes felt without knowing how horrible they were before.

    today we added arrow key support for the left handed and people with wacky key setups.

  • Flamebait

    I bothered to get to the last level, yet my reception is actually worse now. It feels like it’s supposed to be a puzzle platformer, but the platforming elements are a bit broken, and the puzzle (?) solutions are obvious.

    Flying through white spew, braking yourself with liquids or thrust, making jumps with thrust, jumping off of black spew… all these things and more are fiddly and often frustrating. The platforming is whimsical: often you’ll do the exact same thing twice, fail the first time, and succeed the second, for no apparent reason. I don’t find it fun.

    I can only take this as a high-quality proof-of-concept, not a good game in itself.

  • Edmund

    ahh the downfalls of physics based gameplay.

    sadly this is how life is… its the illusion that your doing the same thing again with a different outcome.. when in fact you cant ever do the exact same thing every time 1 pixel of force in any direction will change the outcome of the situation.

    personaly i enjoy physics based gameplay even with its seeminly random gameplay.. i enjoy its dynamic feel

  • Flamebait

    ^I also like physics based gameplay. My favourite puzzle game is The Incredible Machine, and I enjoyed such aspects in (e.g.) Half-Life 2 and Portal. They all easily get off with less fiddlyness though, probably because they deal with chunkier objects.

    The problems in Spew don’t stem from a basis in physics alone. I’ve never seen fluid dynamics integrated with gameplay this tightly before, and it comes off as flakier than it could be… which I’d expect given the novelty.

    I also appreciate the value of unpredictable outcomes in games, but not when A) they’re just razor’s edges between absolute success and failure, B) the player learns nothing from the event (remove either of those and it’s alright).

    Not that it has anything to do with the discussion at hand, but IMO the future of physics games is integration of engineering with gameplay.

  • Ariel

    The game is pretty hard, and finicky. But that’s OK.

    The memory leak however is inexcusable. And calling it “lots of physics” is BS. It’s a memory leak, plain and simple. Fix it.