Fez

looks rad, makes me wish i had an xbox (or that it was going to be released on pc anytime soon)

minecraft clone

Is that an old screenshot? Did you have limited lives at some point in development? (The three hearts in the upper right corner.)

Argh, fingers crossed for a PC release! I’ve wanted to play this game since I first heard about it in 2007. I’m so hard and ready.

Oh, I think you’re right. Sorry, it’s hard to find screens for this game that are free to take. I’ll look for another one.

Alright, may as well make use of our wide layout!

Get an Xbox. Used if you have to. This game is worth it. I’m not kidding.

 Bah!  I have an old xbox, but are you saying I should really be motivated to setup an xbox account and buy points?  Of which, I probably have to buy 999 points so now I have all those imaginary monies…. Is this game really worth that toil!?

I’m excited, but getting an XBox is a bit too much for me. I’ll just have to wait for a PC or PS3 version.

Why is this featured on the INDEPENDENT Gaming Source, if it’s published and backed by Microsoft?

I have $80 to my name right now. Buying an XBox to play one game is a privilege I don’t have.

Microsoft owns XBLA like Valve owns Steam, and just as Valve is not the publisher of every game on Steam, neither is Microsoft the publisher of every game on XBLA.

I can’t wait until 2015 when this is released for PC!

 Sorry Derek, but the Microsoft Studios logo is in the game. Why else would it be starting as a 360 exclusive? For that matter, Nintendo publishes their own games on their own systems with no support from any other company…how come they aren’t classified as “independent?”

I played the demo of Fez, and deleted it immediately afterwards. It had nice Boards of Canada-like music and pleasant graphics, but I think games should actually have things like story, challenge, complexity and consequences for mistakes like death, or they can’t be considered games. By the end I desperately wanted to see an enemy. If there were any puzzles that couldn’t be immediately solved by rotating the camera once or twice, the demo didn’t show them off. Five years in the oven for this? Really? I’ll buy the soundtrack if Polytron sells it, though!

Nintendo is “independent”.  This whole “indie” thing, by contrast, is pretty hard to term, so we tend to apply the label to people who make personal sacrifices (generally living like paupers) in working toward the creation of their personal dream games.  Not very technical, but as good a definition as any.  Given every external asset one makes use of carries an element of compromise, I think it’s easy to see the inverse correlation between purity of concept and aid taken.

Most of us end up needing to make some compromises, as Phil did with Trapdoor and Microsoft, but both of those were done, presumably, in the name of carrying his vision forward.  It seems to have worked.
As for the “no enemies / no death” deal, I dig it quite a lot.  There need to be more games made for patient mindsets.  I favor games that try to be more than amusement.  Is Fez one of these?  I won’t know until I play it.  But I try to keep an open mind.  :

If it ever comes out on PC, ill totally buy this. Too many great indie games come out only on Xbox! (Im lookin at you, Derek…)

I can’t believe it finally happened.

Derek actually said that there’s a big possibility of a PC version of the XBOX Spelunky. Fish on the other side didn’t say anything about a PC version of Fez.

There’s a link to the soundtrack up there in the post. You can pre-order it for $5.

As much as I usually agree with Derek, the dude above actually has a point here. I’m not criticising Fez here – i’m sure it will live up to my expectations – but after thinking about it, it really isn’t an Independent game.

“Independent Game” is short for “Independently PUBLISHED Game”, in the same way that Independent Books and Independent Music mean independantly published.

Or at least “published independently of mainstream publishers”. Which is what Steam and XBLA are.

They are mainstream publishers:
Publish
1. To prepare and issue (printed material) for public distribution or sale.
2. To bring to the public attention; announce.

This is actually pretty problematic as it would mean that about half of the (awesome) “indie” section of Steam isn’t actually indie!

Lets get some kind of scale going here:
1: You’ve got the AAA games – big publishers, big companies etc etc
2: Games backed (or taken on board) by a major publisher, but originally made by a small studio. Eg Alien Hominid, possibly Patapon and so on.
3: Developed by a single person or small group. Has funding/support or publicity from some institution (Digipen, IGF and so on). Often get taken on by bigger publishers later.
4: Games that get made by a single person or small group – often published on a personal site. Publicity is usually small scale and often sold directly from the maker. I’d say games like Frayed Knights fit here.
5: Games (often freeware) made by a single person or small group of people – get published on something like a personal website or in a forum post. Eg Cave Story (hard to belive these days right!) and even the Johnny series by Sparlatacus – which is pretty much the bottom of the indie barrel.

I’d say the Steam indie section is 2 – 3 and occasionally a 4 manages to get published. Which is fine by me – they do an excellent job publishing these smaller games.

I’m not criticising Steam, XBLA or “independent games that aren’t actually independent” in any way here, but I think TIGsource should change its name to something like “The Games that aren’t AAA Game Source”.

TGAG source.

Comment fail – meant to reply to Derek Yu’s comment.

I concur with this guy :)

Troll anders wo…

Look it’s that one game that won an award before even being released maybe by a developer who criticized japanese developers after obviously having ripping off the aesthetic of cave story.
Btw, the whole 2D/3D gimmick was already done 5 years before in Super Paper Mario and Sega’s Crush.

Recipe to win indie game awards before your game is even released:
1 Knock down Japanese devs for not being original
2 Rip off Super Paper Mario and Cave Story
3 Brag on twitter and tell your critics to choke on your dick

Fez Creator Talks Smack About Japanese Games, Takes to Twitter:
http://thewiredfish.wordpress.com/2012/03/09/fez-creator-talks-smack-about-japanese-games-major-downplay-on-twitter/
Oh, and btw, make it XBLA only.

Start a Kickstarter or a donation run or something. :D Really, I’d contribute to that.

stfu trol ur jus jelouos of fil pish cuz he is popular and has sucsess in life unlike u

iff u dnot liek real gmaes go back 2 ur bald space marnines and stop hateing

Finally FEZ! We’ve redecorated the D-Pad Studio office, brought in TV’s and Xboxes and dropped work on Owlboy for a day just to play the heck out of this game

 With all the delays and dev-problems this game has had, I feel priviliged to be able to play it at last. We’ve had alot of the same problems during development, and it’s almost a comfort to see that FEZ actually got finished in the end, and got out.

One of the effects i’d like this game to have on the gaming-community is to open peoples eyes to both pixel-art and scenery that feels like it lives and breathes on it’s own. I’ve played it for roughly an hour now, most of the time just standing still, gazing at things around the charatcer.

A huge tip of the hat to the whole Polytron team from fellow pixel enthusiasts!

 You’re now on my mental list of people who are probably in guerrilla marketing.

What’s this? Another FEZ ripoff?

Not sure if reverse trolling or if you’re just sarcastic.

Anyway if you want me to recommend a real game I suggest you buy Crush 3D on the Nintendo 3DS. It’s the exact same concept except done properly.
And if you have a hard on for voxels so much — this game doesn’t uses pixels, btw, they’re just voxels that happen to look 2D in style, then try Voxatron.

I have nothing against Phish but people really need to stop feeding his ego a little bit when he’s done absolutely nothing special but acts as if he’s better than most industry veterans just because some obscure gaming site awarded him for a game that wasn’t even finished..

Right, I’ve been a member of the TIGForums since 2007 and made games long before that just so I could engage in guerrilla marketing for Fez. Here’s a simpler explanation: I fucking love the game and want Paul to be able to play it.

the game sucks ass and its not indie. LMFAO at all the hype around such a POS. continue sucking your own dicks lil faggots the masses dont give a fuck about fez or spelunky or any of the shit stains that get all the praise here. Fucking wanksters

Retro graphics and chiptunes with a twist! No, thank you, I will stay away from this masterpiece of shit.

hard to judge a game you havent played

time to dust off the Xbox

I am so excited. 8D

Ahh, I don’t usually buy games on xbla or psstore but so many good games are coming out… I just wish I could easily connect my xbox to the internet to get my Fez Fix. 

 YOU WERE PAID BY MICROSOFT TO SAY THAT

This game uses trixels.  There’s a big difference there.  Trixel is basically just a fance word for “3-D Tiles”.  The 3-D in Fez is very much polygon-based, but it’s done in a way where each 90 degree view of the level looks completely 2-Dimensional.  It’s not as complicated as a voxel-based engine.

I’m just going to keep enjoy it, but thank you for the constructive criticism and ad hominems.

I was indeed. They pay me in Bill Gateses. I have two now. One is massaging my scalp as I type this. The other is dancing sensually in the corner to Dean Martin’s rendition of Sway. It’s gonna be a great Saturday night.

Dear “Indie Scene”

Everybody wants to and is trying to be a “Rockstar” and have all that it brings. The only difference is that you pretend your not.  Or basically you outright say you don’t want to. 

 If definitions aren’t technical, they’re worthless. Standards for language need to be set for words to have any meaning, and to prevent them from being warped and abused. See Orwell’s famous essay on language.

Fez isn’t trying in the slightest to be anything “more than amusement.” There’s no symbolism or even any explanation for the collectables strewn throughout the world. There’s no mystery to the environments, nothing that indicates they ever served a purpose in the game’s world besides as obstacle courses placed in front of us by the developers. There’s nothing ambiguous like Cave Story’s Egg Corridor that leaves you scratching your head for answers, anticipating a reveal. The official site proclaims “FEZ aims to create a non-threatening world rich with ambiance, a pleasant place to spend time in.” Sounds like gentle, facile amusement to me.

I think games like Metal Slug and Dodonpachi are far better suited to patient mindsets. You need a huge amount of patience and dedication to beat those games without continuing and figure out how to reap the biggest rewards from their scoring systems. They’re not something everyone has the discipline or inclination to play in the “correct” way. But anyone with two hands and a brain can plow through Fez or Limbo without much risk of frustration.

Too late, I already sold my Xbox. And besides, Phil Fish is a dick. I’m still not sure if I want to get Skyrim because their parent company started legal action against Notch, that turned out alright in the end and they certainly aren’t missing my £40. For a guy like Fish I’m not going to go out my way to support him.

I’ve heard that Fez’s puzzles are very difficult to solve, so I don’t think it’s comparable to Limbo in that sense.

As far as “indie” goes, the site covers games by very small independent studios, so that excludes Nintendo and Valve. I think that definition is sufficiently technical without being pedantic (e.g. “No one can be TRULY independent!”). Doesn’t Orwell warn against that kind of extreme literalism as well?

Anyway, one can tell at a glance the difference between Polytron/Nintendo, Mode 7 Games/Firaxis, Bay12Games/Bethesda, or Touhou/Cave, so I don’t think that “indie” is a particularly vague term.

As for the Microsoft Studios logo at the beginning of Fez… I honestly can’t say why that’s there. Everything I’ve heard has led me to believe that Fez is self-published on XBLA. If it isn’t, I apologize for the error.

Played it, regret paying 10bux. There are no enemies anywhere, you respawn exactly where you were standing after you die, meaning no repercussion for dying (which really makes the whole “platformer” angle , you know, a genre usually based on skill, accuracy and reflexes rather moot) and the mechanics are far too shallow to allow for any real puzzles.

It’s a platformer where you can’t lose and you can’t get stuck. I’m hesitant to even call it a game. Absolutely pointless.

 As do I. TIGSource needs to start enforcing some actual standards regarding the kinds of games that get featured on the site. Pixelated and/or minimalist graphics, a central gameplay gimmick, a chiptune soundtrack, a developer with a blog or forum presence, and pretensions towards “art” or “meaningfulness” do not by themselves qualify a game as “indie.” Let alone a game that’s worth our time. Cave Story is (or was) indie, Fez isn’t.

You don’t respawn exactly where you were.  Nice hyperbole.  You spawn on sections that are separated from the jumping challenges.  If you die in the middle of jumping from 1 block to the next, you’ll be warped back to flat ground and not the 1x tile.  Meaning you start over that challenge until you get it right.

Also it’s not pointless.  The game deserves to exist.  It has an interesting story to tell.  And if you don’t think there is a story then that means you didn’t play it.  I’m sorry you are so used to cinematic experiences and narration.  This game does not do that.  The story is told through playing and through observing your environment.  It’s exactly what games should strive to do.  In fact Fez tells it’s story exactly like Dark Souls which isn’t to say it copied it or that Dark Souls is the first to do it.

As for the enemies.  If there were enemies all you would do is jump on them.  It would basically be a mario clone.  The jumping is to get from point A to B and for solving puzzles.  Enemy combat would be a chunky add on that does nothing to serve the base mechanic of manipulating a 3D world while navigating it in 2D.  I’ll admit it is not like other games.  It doesn’t challenge your reflexes so much as your mind.  Many of the puzzles in the game have had me stumped and Phil does not give you any hints.  Which makes it all the more rewarding when you actually figure it out.  Honestly I’m amazed that such a game like this was made.  It does not hold your hand it does not give you directions and it does not treat you like you are a moron.  What it does let you do is explore.  And there are many many levels to explore.  My only gripe with this is that you are forced to traverse the landscape and even though there are warp points you have to make your way to them each time.  You’ll often have to go through a few levels as you traverse to a warp point.  On the other hand I don’t think the game would work any better if you could warp to any level you wanted at will.  It’s a bold move to actually have the player play the game instead of gradually getting to a point where the game plays itself which is what warp points are.

If you actually gave the game a chance you would see there is a lot of love and and hard work put into the game.  And just from a content perspective the game is full of it.  Also it has a very unique touch that shows through as very charming.  

Anyway even if Phil’s attitude is abrasive it doesn’t bleed through into the game.

Btw I hope you don’t ever have to bear the burden of creating something from your own hands, blood, sweat and tears.  As I don’t think you would be able to take the criticism.  Just based on how vile and vicious you are.  Sure you can dish it but not much else I bet.

To get back on point.  

It’s not pointless and yes it is a game.

FEZ was self published by polytron and trapdoor, neither of which are publishers. microsoft is technically the “publisher” of any and every CBLA game in that they out it up on yheir servers, on their service. but we never got any money from microsoft. fez was developed entirely by polytron (AKA me and renaud and friends), and then trapdoor helped out in the last year or so with tradeshows and travels and things like that. the FEZ IP is fully owned by polytron.

Why don’t you just rent one?

 ”As far as “indie” goes, the site covers games by very small independent studios”

And yet there have been Minecraft-related posts as recently as the end of last year. Notch is a multimillionaire and Mojang has a lot of employees now. I don’t think they qualify anymore.

 I don’t doubt any of this, Phil, but there’s something you’re not telling us. I’ve played a huge number of XBLA games, and until now the only ones I’ve seen Microsoft’s logo in were the ones actually published by Microsoft. Either they’ve just started putting their logo into all new XBLA releases, or they had some added involvement with Fez.

The amount of money Notch has is a non-issue for me, but 28 employees does push the upper limit of what I’d consider posting on TIGSource. It’s still a far cry from Nintendo, Valve, or even Double Fine, though.

One game that I posted recently that I would not consider to be indie is Bastion. Even though they are a small studio, I did not realize at the time that the game was published by Warner Bros.

Minecraft might be a special exception, given that Minecraft originated in the TIGforums and some of the TIGs regulars have a special connection to the game.

That said, I also don’t have a problem if Derek happens to post something that isn’t an indie title just because it’s a game he played and enjoyed. Part of supporting independent game developers is to talk about good games so that we can learn from them.

Vile and vicious? His complaints sounded reasonable enough to me, maybe  a checkpoint system like they did it on VVVVVV would have been a better idea. And that game had instakill hazards and enemies you couldn’t jump on, in fact so did Manic Miner and many others that predated Mario. 
In fact why did they even add in fall damage deaths if you’re just going to teleport back up again, sounds more like compensating for the fact that sometimes when you’re on solid ground and you rotate the camera you find out you’re actually floating in mid air and now falling to your doom.
Also the lack of enemies and emphasis on item fetching and exploration is not as much of a bold move as you think, Knytt and its many derivatives have done it before.

You don’t need to be able to create a product in order to criticize something, people here have been playing games for more than 20 years now, we certainly can tell when something doesn’t work.

This is fully commercial product being sponsored by Microsoft Game Studios on the frontpage of the Xbox Marketplace.
People are entitled to be as aggressive and vile as they want with their criticism, specially if they were charged money for it.
Stop treating indie devs as if they were bullied little kids, it is a competitive industry out there after all and if the creator can’t take criticism maybe it’s him who shouldn’t be “bearing the burden” of creating a product in the first place.

Hey Phil, your game just sucks.
I mean, I won an award back in 2008 for a single level demo with one working object on it  that proves it. Choke on my dick.

god damn, “with a twist!” fucking brilliant, twist indeed!  thats good, they should put it on the metaphorical box

Because 98% of rental places haven’t rented consoles since the N64 was popular.

And God knows nobody is ever allowed to use a gimmick more than once.

Non-Xbox users can try out the free PC demo here
http://armorgames.com/play/10899/sky-island
Unfortunately this port took less than half a decade to make, but on the plus side it has extra features such as enemies, scoring and challenge.

Also you can find out what a wonderful friendly person the creator is at his tweeter:
http://twitter.com/#!/phil_fish

Yes, I questioned why I got that in a humble bundle. Not that it wasn’t amazing.

Is there a reason the game has to have enemies?  How does that add anymore challenge than what it already is?  What does the score actually do really?  If you are doing well you should be able to tell.  As for the challenge.  It has plenty of it.  It’s like being pissed off that tetris doesn’t have enemies or boss battles.  Give me a break.
“Also hating on the game because you hate the person who made it is the same thing as hating someones cooking because they parallel park badly.” ( quote stolen from Tim rogers)

(My bad about the vile and vicious thing. It was early and I just spent 9+ hours playing FEZ so I was a bit tired and loopy.)
As I’ve just stated because I have actually played the game and I actually have an open mind to try it for more than 5 minutes.  You do not respawn in the middle of a jumping challenge.  There are safe points that are granted the respawn point.  Would you prefer lives and dying and going back to the title screen and then restarting?  Really breaks the flow of the game.  Games that use lives and boot you back to a load screen, title scree, black screen whatever.  They break the flow.  Believe me if this game had lives you would be bitching about how archaic it is in design.  The reason you can respawn so leisurely is because the game wants you to play it and relax and have a peaceful time.  That seems to be the intent and if it’s not coming across well at least it tried something different.  Instead of throwing countless enemies, objects, bosses, obstacles, and numbers etc at you.  

It’s a different game yes.  If you don’t like it fine.  Don’t play it.  But don’t come here and try to get other people not to experience it because you hate the developer.  Believe it or not but this game may not be targeted at you.  This is a pretty cool game for a younger audience as well as adults who don’t want to get so invested into reflex based mechanics. Confession time.  Before buying FEZ I dropped by /v/ and joined a 400+ reply discussion about FEZ.  Many people were hating on it complaining it lacks challenge, grace, magic, hardcore gameyness and whatever they could come up with to insult it.  I read all 400+ replies and by the end of it I told myself “That’s a bummer guess I won’t buy it”  Later that night I decided that I would try it out for myself regardless of what others were saying.  In the end I’m glad I bought it and I thank the developers for creating it.  It was a unique experience with a lot of hard work put into it.  Just because the game took many years to get finished isn’t some sort of free pass to bitch about it.Also I shouldn’t have made that crack about having to create something.  It didn’t add to the discussion.I guess what I was trying to say is if you have gone through the grueling work of making games, art, comics, movies etc you’ll be able to tell how much effort was put in.  

I’m not sure I’m getting my point across and for that I blame myself and my poor communication skills.  Sorry.

Sorry for being off-topic and kind of trollish, but Tetris really did get better with boss battles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnRavyRBX0U

So, people posted over 400 reasons why they hated the game but you’ll
still rationalize it as everybody just picking on poor Phil, because he
took 5 goddamn years to come up with a high requirements engine to render bloated
16×16 tiles, oh I’m sorry, TRIXELS, using 250,000+ polygons per
screen and dynamic lighting all just for some cool shading effect?

Couldn’t he just use bump mapping?

Hell I’ve seen Minecraft mods that looked better than this and
people still called it by its actual name. We have far superior pixel artists than this all over the web too.

Then after people pointed out how unoriginal the changing perspective
trick was and how it had been around since at least the gamecube days, you
say that is ok
to imitate a concept. But then why did Phil throw a fit once a small flash programmer did in 2 months what he couldn’t do in 5 years

with the release of Sky Island?

And what about Yume Nikki, Knytt and Within a Deep Forest and so many
others doing the no-combat fetch quest thing way long ago, but you call
it a bold
move when Phil does it?

Or having a horrible map without any sense of direction somehow counts as good challenge?

Do you understand there’s absolutely nothing special about FEZ at all,
and even though this is his first project Phil still acts as if he’s the
ultimate game designer? That it’s actually been proven that his game
could’ve been done as a flash application, but he’s still still
constantly making an ass out of himself?

People love to hate FEZ because of how delusioned and overhyped it is.

If you’re going to call all Japanese games shit, even if you do
apologize for it later, then you better back that up with some rather
impressive stuff.
 
It’s just incredibly ironic the way that Phil
copied Pixel’s art style so well, but he couldn’t emulate his humility.
And he really should delete his tweeter, if you read his messages most
of the flaming was done by himself at his followers. The man simply
can’t handle  trolls.

Way to act professional.

What’s with all the Vitriol?  This site seems to be 4chan for game developers. 

Jealous, snipey, self-entitled and be-monicled prats.Don’t like the game?  Don’t buy it.Don’t like the editorial license editors wield when selecting stories?  Skip over it.God I hope none of my games ever get featured here.

 Of Course, why buy a crappy game!
a crappy game that is based from another crappy Japanese game.
and I hope I will never buy one from you too which you probably rip from somewhere

you guys are a bunch of monsters

What are you, six years old?

Criticism is one thing, telling people to choke on their reproductive organs for releasing a game they don’t like is another. Just goes to prove that 90% of people on the internet are complete idiots.

I couldn’t give less of a fuck about Phil Fish when it comes to FEZ.  I don’t need to know about the developer in order to enjoy his game.  And please stop putting words in my mouth.  While I have never played Eternal daughter or Knytt stories I did not say that they “weren’t” bold.

Also in the world of corporate bullshit and PR as well as political correctness I am glad someone is as abrasive as Phil.  He honestly states his opinions and doesn’t back down.  And even if he did back down people would just call him a pussy.  So yeah I hope he continues to piss off many more people.

And just a thought.  Even though Phil makes a blanket statement like “japanese games suck(which right now they really do and not so much the games but the method of production) people attack him.  He is only one person.  How would you feel if you made a statement people didn’t agree with and everyday people insulted you and tried to get you angry?

Anyway screw you.  Even if Phil is in the wrong it doesn’t give people the right to try and ruin his life.

Have a good day.

Fez is a paper mario ripoff! :D

A game with no enemies is like playing tennis with no opponent against a wall…which is what people with no friends do, which is sad.

 Says he has nothing against someone…..before launching into how much he dislikes them.

I see, pretty genius! Clearly most six years old claim to have gained awards in 2008, that’s why you went for the “attack his age” strategy.. I honestly wouldn’t have thought of that, but you surely think outside the box! ..WHAT AN IDIOT, you could have told him anything about how stupid he sounded, and his lack of brains, but no! you went for something even stupider, making him look like the smart guy here! nice going… >:(

You know it’s getting pretty tight around here…. :-0

I love this game, best Microsoft game in ages! Although I enjoy indie games better.

well said god sir!!!

no offnese butt imo the haters of this gmae r all halo fans who r just jelousous of pill phish cuz he’s is more popular then them

I would say a studio is indie if it is free to develop a game however it
wants, under it’s own rules, not following the rules of some outside
party, which to be abstract, would also include society as an outside
party. A developer not scared to take “risks”, because they are a non-issue. Even if they have millions of dollars, they don’t spend nearly so much developing and releasing a game, even if it is on Steam or XBLA.

 Dude did you just say Japanese games suck? I mean, I understand if you say “most Japanese games suck”–because most games in general do, in fact, suck. But you do realize some of the most highly lauded franchises in America–actually, most of them–come from Japan, right?

Until Phil Fish or anyone on the planet makes anything remotely as good as Shadow of the Colossus they can shut up about that. Seriously. Fez isn’t as revolutionary as he seems to think it is.

I asked fish about this (in person!) and he said they just aren’t considering anything properly until after it is released, because there was too much to do in the meantime without worrying about porting it as well.

But Eternal Daughter did have lots of enemies. And pretty aggressive ones at that, that game is brutal.

So basically, you’re happy that Phil is an asshole about his opinions but screw those who call him out on being the talentless hack he is. Yeah you sure taught those politically correct pussies how to never criticize anyone ever again.

As for what I’d personally do if I were Phil, I’d STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS and let it go, but apparently his ego just won’t let him do that…

Echochrome is Japanese and handled the perspective changing thing way better.
Unfortunately it didn’t receive any awards before being released.

Lot of petty, stupid, assumptive people in here. Best game I’ve played in years.

hi folks. super joe, the hero of the fsa here. just wanted to say congratulations to phil fish and team on the release of their long awaited game. go get em, tiger.

I can see both sides of the argument, but it’s unrealistic to say that people can’t be critical as a consumer. Do you really expect people to offer not but praise on this or any game? Sure, the designer rustled a few jimmies, but even I was once under the impression that he was an asshole, I was still intending on buying his game. I’m still looking forward to it, and yes, it is very hyped. But so was Skyrim and I bought that. Was it a good game? Sure. Was it as amazing as it was hyped up to be? Not a chance; I didn’t even finish it. I’m going to withhold my feedback for Fez until AFTER I play it, which is only the right thing to do. Just keep in mind that the people white-knighting for something look as bad as those against it; same emotionally-driven sense of self-righteousness; it’s sickening.

Honestly, I think the enemies VS no enemies thing is a very trite argument, and people will prefer one over the other based on what kind of games they’re into. Would you say Shadow of the Colossus sucked because it didn’t really feature any enemies apart from the bosses, which weren’t really enemies but puzzles? I personally didn’t like that game; it felt sparse, bland, and uninspiring. Others will swear by it. Tetris on the other hand; I watched the aforeposted video and saw that having enemies/bosses added nothing to the game. It depends on the game, what the developer is trying to evoke, and in the case of Fez, I never got the impression that the emphasis was on making it an action-packed Cave Story clone, but the real draw to this game (at least for me) is seeing charming retro graphics re-invented in a whole new way. I love the game’s aesthetic, but the true test will be when I play the game. Can’t wait. 

so basically phil fish can be as abrasive as he wants but other people aren’t allowed to be abrasive towards him? thanks i’ll keep that in mind.

Can’t wait = I can’t wait touch what I’ve been waiting 5 years for. I can’t wait to see if it lives up to this hype. I can’t wait to scrutinize it, be critical, and use my own prowess as a game designer to take it apart and find it’s real flaws; not nit-pick things that are non-issues. I also hope that it’s something that I will enjoy, and perhaps even gain a greater respect of Phil Fish by playing.

My online reputation isn’t quite the best, either, but I take game development and design very seriously, and I wouldn’t want my work to be overlooked just because it’s easy to be an asshole when you’re sitting behind a keyboard.

I disagree with your opinions on Tetris Blast, did your game win an award 4 years before you had even finished it yet? Did you?
Well, suck my dick. Choke on it.

Seriously though, your advice should have been better given to Phil himself. He grew into infamy thanks to his juvenile online behavior. Everyone was nothing but respectful to him at GDC 2011 and then he makes an ass of himself, and the trolls simply got away with  a few laughs out of it all. Successful troll is successful.

I’ll ignore all of the legitimately listed problems with this game and go with your personal opinion, thank you. Best game in years since the Commodore 64.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfICeBtVv8U
The game above came out in 2007, ironically at around the same time when FEZ started development, unfortunately it is Japanese and can’t possibly be any good.
I mean the graphics don’t even look like they belong in 1986 wtf, are you even trying Japan?

The video below however, is perfection in digital form and its creator is the second coming of our messiah Jhon Romero.  Suck it down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgeEj7r6BfU

Any criticizing is invalid, unless you won an award before even fishing anything or something. Choke on my dick.
They also artificially lengthened the game by adding a new game+ with an  extra perspective, but that’s not dull work, folks. It’s art. You see they are anti-cubes, because they are hidden in your first play through. This game is so great you’ll want to play it twice anyway.

One more thing, isn’t most ambience music made by a random generators or something?
Not that I’m attacking the musician, as I feel he has no fault in getting involved with this trainwreck. But really what’s so immersive about random notes and lots of reverb.

Also screw that guy who dissed Tetris Blast. That one gimmick completely changed the whole gampe flow, you can’t blow up whole squares of blocks in Tetris, nor can you cause chain explosions. Also the enemies have their own patterns and attacks to use and the difficulty scales accordingly, unlike tetris that’s just play until the game crashes or you die.

Saying that Bombliss added nothing new is like saying Ultima and Elder Scrolls are the same because crap they both have rpg elements, or that Columns and Bejeweled are the same because you match stones identical color.

His comments on Twitter after the winning his award removed all interest I had in his game and him as a developer. Call it what you will, but my money would be better in the hands of developers whom I respect. On that note, it doesn’t take much at all to gain respect. Anyhow, good to see the game out, but the next game I’ll be buying is Spelunky :)

I agree, it’s been a long time Microsoft made such a great game!

tigsource discussion seems to be kind of embarrassing these days.

If some of these commenters would put as much effort into game development as they do into being jealous and/or pointlessly negative, the indie community would be bringing a lot of really great games into the world…

yes yes the haters are all just jealous that must be the reason

tl;dr :

phil fish=asshole
fez=awesome

I have a hard time believing the overtly negative commenters here are game developers. I can understand people not liking Phil Fish, or the game not being their cup of tea — but if you’re a game developer, you should at least be able to recognize that he’s made an impressive and quite unique game.

Anyway, you really shouldn’t judge TIGSource discussions by the front page. The discussions on the forums are generally a lot more rewarding and not as troll-infested.

Congrats to Polytron! It’s pretty stunning how much there is to explore.

I enjoyed playing it :) And gonna enjoy it again when it hits PC.

The thing with words, is that sometimes their meaning are a little subjective… So I’ll use numbers to explain what I think it’s going on. Fez is a 7 out of 10 game, but with the hype it’s getting 9 out of 10, and everyone’s like… booya, it’s not a 9, it’s a 7! And everyone’s like you’re so jelly, and then people start taking sides and they say it’s a 1 out of 10, booya! and then people take the opportunity to point out how smart they are and everyone else on the internet is so retarded, and in the process they say it’s 10 out of 10, and we all lose grasp of reality by the end of the day.

Dude, shadow of the colossus was awesome IN SPITE of having no enemies! Plus it had enemies, the big giant ones, in case you missed, it just didn’t have plenty of little tiny enemies, plus if anything the whole game revolved about said enemies. Now ask yourself, would shadow of the colossus be the same without the colossus? just a horse running around? See? I just won. Plus I’d love if shadow of the colossus have had a little more living elements to deal with, but you can’t have everything! 

Have you played the game?

 or they want to be associated with a flagship game, obviously

 You didn’t get the note?
Buying indie products means you’re obligated to unconditionally love whatever crap the devs put out. Doesn’t matter if the creator in question is a total douchebag.
The fact they obviously bought reviews from IGN and had support from Microsoft Game Studios is just coincidence, Phil is really a poor harmless indie game dev with a sailor mouth, we really shouldn’t complain that he is treating people like shit online, told a small Japanese dev to his face in front of a live audience at the GDC 2011 that his whole country “just sucks” (no hyperbole, those were his exact words) and acted like an asshole to people online and out of it.

If any of use would put any effort into game development then we’d definitely take less than half a decade to make a pixelated, boring challenge less platformer where the main catch is how cool these graphx look when rotated and you the only consequence for failing is respawining immediately 5 seconds behind the point you were, of course.

I feel more jealous about Konjak, who is a surprisingly talented pixel artist who seems to be struggling with lack of motivation, I feel envy or the guys behind Team Meat Boy for genuinely making a fast, skillful, acrobatic platformer, or team VVVVV for getting retro the Spectrum aesthetics down so well and updating the obsolete platformers from the Spectrum era up to modern standards without losing, err, their obsolescence.

I feel envy for the creators of Bastion and Braid for integrating narrative and gameplay so artistically and seamlessly well, while looking both beautiful and creatively fun to play.

I feel envy for Notch for the ridiculous amount of money he earned through fan mods, and I feel envy for Derek Yu but seriously I won’t kiss your ass any more than your fans already do. I liked you better before you sold off. And the list goes on.

The only thing FEZ did right was buying out internet reviewers and earning hipster attention because all of its dated unoriginal gimmicks are oh so “bold” and innovative.
Look the map doesn’t even work, it’s totally on purpose guys. If you hate it you’re just jelly, too DEEP for you, etc.

Any retard with a pirated copy of Game Maker 8 can be a game developer, that doesn’t talke anything away from the criticism.

Stop trying to invalidate people’s opinions.

I can tell from your reply that you have not played the game.

Look, you just said you liked Braid; cool, thanks, I’m glad you liked it.  So if I designed a game that you think is good, do I get at least a little bit of benefit-of-the-doubt when I say that Fez is good?

Any retard with a pirated copy of Game Maker 8 can be a game developer, that doesn’t talke anything away from the criticism.Craz’d, for instance:http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index…Was made by a 13 year old kid. Yes, 13 yo. Full of 4chan memes and such.That doesn’t make him any more or less special.

Stop trying to invalidate people’s opinions.

No.
I did play the demo btw.  I’m not giving him money just because you say so but nice try. Will pirate when it comes out on Pc. Would that make you happy?

Well, all I can say is that it seems to me like you are making a mistake.  You could be enjoying a really interesting and surprising and original game, rather than complaining about things on the internet.

You’ve got it backwards. I’m not saying their criticisms are invalid because they’re not game developers, I’m saying they’re probably not (serious) game developers if they can’t see how impressive Fez is. I’m talking about being able to look beyond your own personal tastes (or bias because you don’t like the developer) and recognizing an impressive piece of work.

 Braid was shit, it’s like playing a NES emulator by savestating every 10 seconds.

Also, the atom bomb thing was stupid. FU.

Sir, I have been defeated by your superior intellect and your razor-sharp wit.

 Impressive for what? For outdated mechanics and ugly pixel pixel art? And what the fuck is ambience, Phendrana Drifts had great ambient, good thing the rest of the game was a total wreck.

I say FEZ is slow and shallow, people tell me I haven’t even played it. I say it looks ugly, people think it’s impressive. Have any of you even played any SNES game after 1994? That is good graphics. Anything on arcades by Capcom is good pixel art. WHY is this impressive? We’ve pointed out dozens of reasons why this game is mediocre but all you likers say is “you just don’t get it” or “You haven’t even played the game yet”.
Yeah way to go that will really convince me.

Well I guess at least the puzzles were creative. Too bad that wasn’t even made by Phil himself but his coworker.

Correction:
*WASN’T a total trainwreck.
I love Metroid Prime.

 Have you ever sucked a dick? Have you even taken up the ass?

How could you say you hate it if you never tried it?
Go on, get on your knees.

As someone who has played a reasonable amount of the game (I have 200%ed it), it sure looks to me like you have not played it and have no idea what you are talking about.  I wager it’s similar for anyone else who has played.  

My recommendation is to stop digging the hole you’re in.  Then again, maybe it doesn’t matter, since you are posting all these cutting remarks anonymously.  You’re so brave!

Seems I touched a nerve there for some reason :) 

Ironically this is exactly what Phil said  to Makoto Goto, in a way.

So the art isn’t total shit because I haven’t 200%ed it, therefore  clearly I’m in the wrong.
I believe after the first 170% the game finally stops being shit I guess.
 
Why don’t you try hitting your own thumb with a sledgehammer, I guarantee it’s the best experience ever. How could you refuse, you never tried it for yourself.
I guarantee you won’t feel disappointed, trust me.

By the way 200% is kind of an arbitrary number, isnt it?

Oh, hey, Joe Blow makes an appearance. This kind of analogy is really idiotic because developing a game is unbelievably more difficult and time-consuming than making a few bitter posts on the internet criticizing another one. As you should know very well.

Since you’re here, Jonathan, why did you remove a puzzle from The Witness because you thought it might be a little too hard for unskilled players? As deficient as Fez is, I don’t think Fish compromised at all when designing its puzzles. If people get stuck on something and don’t have the patience or interest to figure it out, they can look at a FAQ. Myst and Riven refused to grant any concessions to the lazy or stupid, and they were far better off for it.

No one’s jealous here. I’d rightfully feel terrible about myself for my unwarranted outburst if I was Fish. I’ve also seen plenty of negative criticism of Fez here backed up by hard evidence.

Just curious: How far have you gotten into the game? The game does seem deceptively simple at first, but as the world opens up and the puzzles get harder and more complex (and meta!), you really feel how deep the rabbit hole goes. This game is anything but shallow.

It *is* slow paced, though, and if you don’t like that, fair enough. But this game is deliberately designed to be slow paced. That’s what I’m talking about with looking beyond your personal preferences.

I’m not a particular big fan of platformers and I can’t help but feel that there are too many pixel art indie games (though I understand the reasons why), but this game uses both of those elements in interesting ways, and it has won me over to the point that it’s one of the best gaming experiences I’ve had in a loooong time.

No offense taken at the sex year old remark, as I was just paraphrasing Phil after all.

The bragging about a 2008 award he won for a single level and then telling people to suck on his dick actually did happen. Check his twitter.

Not that it really matters, but that comment was in relation to Fez winning the IGF grand prize in 2012.

Which still took place 3 months before the game was actually  released.
But you’re right, not that it really matters.

My point is that these kinds of comments are generally not one-offs; they are a lifestyle.

I have never removed puzzles from The Witness for difficulty reasons.  I have, however, taken them out of the mainline required to complete the game, making them optional.

Reading this entire comment thread was more fun than playing the actual game. 
Believe me I got 576% on this thread, it kinda sucks on your first 200% but then the pace quickly catches up from there.

Those who disagree haven’t even posted beyond 153% and can’t make an opinion.

Best comment evaarr

Had you played, you would know why 200% is not arbitrary!

Because of unreachable Anti-Cubes until you get the new perspective change after newgame+ yadda yadda.

Dude just drop it I didn’t like the game based on the demo I don’t have to 200% it to realize I hate it.
And the only
reason you’re defending this pos is because Phil is your best TIG buddy since
2007.

Suck on my dick. Phil Phish style. Choke on it.

But that’s not all!
You get to wear pink gay pride SHADES!

So it’s sort of like a..  volumetric pixel?

It’s better when public is pointlessly negative, rather than genuinely uninterested. I got to know about Fez just because of Phil’s public behavior.

 No, it’s regular 3d with an orthogonal projection.

Right. I’ve seen people behave like total tits here before so I thought you were just another hateful person.

Don’t listen to assholes, they always try to invalidate people opinions. They’re just mad because they don’t have an opinion of their own, so they can’t stand other people speaking their minds.

G.O.T.E. A.D.

Oh man, this comment made me snort out my cereal! o/ :’D

I just wanted ask, Mr. Fish, what possible benefit is in it for you, the developer, to have the game be 360 exclusive (If that’s not actually the case and it will come out on other platforms, I must have misunderstood). Because it seems to me you’re limiting your potential audience for no good reason. 

I mean, you run a business now. You’re in the business of selling games. Wouldn’t you want to have your product available to the widest possible audience? You have a gigantic market of PC users who would potentially buy your game. The PC community hyped the game up long before anyone else even knew about. Where’s is the logic in not providing them a way to buy it now?

Or maybe its just an issue of extra development time needed for the port. Or a standard XBLA exclusivity contract that’ll expire in a few months. Fine, cool. But just let us know what the official word is. 

Compare Fez with a game that it resembles:  Portal. 

No enemies, and I respawned immediately after dying.  It was soooo obvious that the levels were just a big maze filled with puzzles, and it did not try to make a grand statement about the human condition.  My verdict:  Fez is a puzzle game in a vein similar to portal.  I think Fez is better.

You’re welcome!

 I feel like it is important to seperate the art from the artist, unless the artist’s politics somehow transfer over to the game or if they did something truly deplorable like murder or something . I don’t agree with Tom Cruise’s whole Scientology deal but I loved the newest mission impossible,  Alan Moore comes across as an angry old man but I still love his comics.  And Phil Fish is a huge jerk but I still played (and loved) Fez because I am not going to judge a person’s work purely based on how they act.

Phil Fish’s attitude isn’t a good thing for me. Watching the trailer on Gamespot showed some things about it; I strongly dislike pixel art and the sound effect the turning makes sounds painful.

Still, when the PC version is released, I might give it a try… but I am strongly bothered to support this guy, sadly.

Wintel users who were left stranded can play my awesome game instead:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35DVGAJgqc0

Also, Toaplan forever.

What game? :-/

G.O.A.T.S.E ?

 Portal had turrets. You obviously didn’t 300% it, how could you even criticize it.
Choke on my turret.

Uh, I meant to say sentries. Choke on them too.

 Sounds like “difficulty reasons” to me. I don’t remember Myst or Riven having any optional puzzles.

Whatever your opinion on FEZ is, the I just won an award suck on my dick comment is going to live down in infamy, no matter how many games Phil makes people will always bring it up.

No matter the quality of the games themselves. Choke on it.

Now that this is finished is Annabelle Kennedy going to return to Tiny Survival Horror? That’s my main concern up in here.

Fez is full of bugs, guys. This guy signed a 25 million dollar contract with M$ and now looks like he wanted to pull the good’ol’notch’a'doo, huh? realeasing alphas and shit like a rookie. Looks like japanese games are not the only thing that sucks, amirite? 

Oh, hey guys. I just found out the real truth. This game was released long before FEZ existed: 
http://armorgames.com/play/10899/sky-island FEZ is a ripoff!! OMG!!

I’m still laughing hard and loud about the avalanche of epic replies. Many thanks to all.

TBH, despite the fact that Fish is a dick, I don’t think Fez is a shitty game. An undeniable amount of work went into it. But it’s not revolutionary, so — as many other things that are not revolutionary must — it really has to try hard to stand out amongst its peers.

It basically has to be the Cave Story of perspective puzzle games. Cave Story did nothing particularly new, but it did what it did extremely well. That’s why it’s so famous, not because it was in, any way, revolutionary. Maybe if this game was released 5 years ago it would have had a better shot at being super innovative. But now it seems like Fez is stuck making a name for itself the hard way: by simply being a great, not so different, game. It can no longer market itself on the assumption that it is the only game of its kind.

I’d say it’s performing about average right now.

The soundtrack by Disasterpiece is amazing beautiful.

I don’t think anyone truly thinks FEZ is a shitty game. If they say so they might be trolling. 
What many people might truly feel is that FEZ is an ‘ok’ game. Because if they’re like me, they’re objective when analyzing a game.
There’s plenty of great games that I believe are better than FEZ, but they’re done by big teams with big budgets, and FEZ isn’t. 
The thing is, personally, if I’m buying a game with my hard earned cash, I don’t care a lot about who did it, how long it took, and what was his budget; I care about the quality. And FEZ is just another game to me. Otherwise, with the fact FEZ is indie, I can say it’s a great accomplished, not better than minecraft, but a very respectable accomplishment, more than I’ll ever accomplish in my gamedev career (especially because it’s not my full time job). Does his accomplishment entitle the author to be a complete ass? I don’t think so. This fellow must think he’s a rockstar for making this game successfully. But an idiot is still an idiot, even with the coding skills and a lot of patience for having completed a full game. I guess some people just don’t know how to handle a lot of attention.

Oh and FEZ is full of bugs, what’s up with that?

Fez isn’t worth ten bucks.
The gimmick is kind of neat, and the environment is interesting enough, but it’s almost completely devoid of any sort of enjoyable gameplay.
Though it has no personal enjoyability, it might be worth supporting the developer for – however, Phil Fish, isn’t worth supporting because he’s an arrogant wanker, so save your money and go buy a beer or two instead.

Sorry, but after I got a chance to play this, this really wasn’t worth the hype IMO.

The gameplay was very shallow and the praised music, while nice, isn’t really music as much as it is ambiance. It’s too arty and not enough substance.

THANKS! that pretty much sums up what many of us were trying to EXPLAIN to the others. 
I mean, it’s not like FEZ is bad. But it wasn’t worth the hype, as you put it. Most of the hype probably came from publicity and the fact it took so long to get released TONS people were waiting for it. 
I bet if someone didn’t hear about fez until now, they’d just say it’s a cute “oldschool” game.  And I bet if it wasn’t bought by microsoft, ratings on commercial game review sites would a lot lower. Most review sites gave it 8 out of 10, I think it’s closer to a 7.  But it’s merely mario with a twist. Think paper mario,  and paper mario gets 9+ score on most review sites, you do the math.

Trolls are never successful.

It’s about…friggin’…bloody…time.

I have something against Fish. Because he’s a loudmouth asshole who brags about having done a 5/10 points game.

REally nice game and awesome concept! The platforming aspects couldve used a bit more tweaking. nd I really wish there was considerations towards “other” forms of challenges. Then just puzzles & jumping. Other challenges, like enemies and maybe a few bosses.

Who pays you does not determine whether you’re indie or not. This game was made by 1 person, with a partner who ditched him and then a new partner later on. The toil and crap Phil Fish has gone through to make this lovechild of his is about as indie as it gets.

Go watch Indie Game: The Movie. It covers this game in part of it, answering some of your questions. Fez is indie. Period.

You go girl! I like your points! There are great games from japan, like shadow of the colossus! That fish guy sure proves the point about being better to keep your mouth shut and make people wonder if you’re stupid, than actually talking and having everyone confirm it! He should have kept his big mouth shut, now everyone know’s he’s an idiot. Anyway, shadow of the colossus….that’s a great example and personally I love most japanese games even if that’s subjective. And I also love many games from other places, like skyrim or crysis, but there’s plenty of really bad games from there as well, should I condemn the rest of the local market becasue of that? No, because I’m not dumb like fishy fish.

Yeah, best games in the market have enemies, for example shadow of the colossus had those giant colossal creatures, mario bros had all kind of enemies… but this game was lazy in that department.

I bought this game… it was fun for about 3 or 4 minutes then I got bored… I haven’t played in over a week… pretty boring stuff tbh

Hahaha

If I didn’t know this was FEZ I’d think it’s one of those free games laying around the internets, the only thing interesting is that it’s similar to paper mario. 

 lol seriously? you can buy the exact amount of points to get this game, and are you seriously crying about setting up an acct? http://www.xboxlive.com, if you cant do that well then i feel sorry for you.

Hey, I’m getting squeezed!

Help me!!!

Can’t breathe…

Tell me about it…

Word says Phil Fish is still in debt with Microsoft. And they can’t even pay for re-licensing any game fixes. Man that sucks, hope he doesn’t choke on it.

I’m sure they won’t.