Part 2: Interview With Blackeye Software

Introduction:
Blackeye Software is a freeware games development company that was formed in 1996 by two brilliant and eccentric teenagers. They started churning out games and pretty soon had a large and loyal group of followers. At the height of their popularity Blackeye released the highly anticipated and now highly acclaimed Eternal Daughter, a homage to classic NES/SNES platformers like Metroid.

In 2002 the Blackeye duo split, leaving one individual at the head of the ship: Derek Yu. Since 2002 Derek has continued to work on games (along with artwork, tutorials, and other miscellany), and has turned the Blackeye website into something like his personal creative showcase. For a more detailed and rather humorous history of Blackeye, go to the site and click on "About."

TIGSource:

Okay, so, the first big question strikes again: why make games? (Besides the obvious fact that they're all that matter in life.)

Blackeye:

Haha. Ah, wow. That's a tough first question. I'd say the simple answer to that is because they're fun. Maybe a longer answer would be that to make a game is to create a world. More so than a book, a painting, or a movie, a game is something where the creator has complete control over the rules. And for a creative person, you can't ask for a better opportunity.

TIGSource:

Okay... so, going along with that, what matters most to you as a game developer? What are you trying to achieve?

Blackeye:

Well, first and foremost it's a creative outlet for me, I think. If it wasn't, I wouldn't do it. It's a lot like those other things I mentioned: books, art, movies, etc. I feel like the best games come from people who have something to say. Like you have a game inside you and you want to get it out. That may sound really artsy-fartsy to some people (it kind of does to me), but I think it's true.

Second, you want to provide a good experience for the player. It's an interaction between the creator and the player, that's key.

TIGSource:

So, getting back to your "artsty-fartsy" comment, my next question is, do you consider games to be art, or have any kind of inherent value?

Blackeye:

I think that they do have artistic value. But like I said before, games are supposed to be fun before they are artistic. If you can combine the two, you've made a great game. But I wouldn't sacrifice, say, good gameplay to make an artistic statement out of a game.

TIGSource:

Could you name a game or two off the top of your head that do a good job of "combining the two?"

Blackeye:

Let's see... Ikaruga. There are games I want to say, like Ico and Rez, but I haven't had much experience with them, so I don't know if I'm allowed. I'll say them anyways. And a lot of old games. I don't know: to me, Super Mario Bros. and The Legend of Zelda are art. Pixel art, you know… hehe.

TIGSource:

Okay, getting around to the next big part of my first question, why make free games? Wouldn't money help in your plans for world domination?

Blackeye:

Haha. That's true: I'm not making much money right now. Well, I really just want as many people to play my games as possible. And they're too small to sell. There's no point in charging 10 bucks a game and making 100 bucks, when I could have thousands of people play them for free.

TIGSource:

Good point. Moving on, how long have you been making games? Was 1996 the start, or were there rumblings before that?

Blackeye:

That was around the time that we (Jon and I) got the means to start making games. But we designed games on paper as little kids all the time. Some pretty funny stuff, a lot of it was just rip-offs of other games. But it was good practice, you know. And when I say "means," I mean we got a computer and learned how to program a little.

TIGSource:

How much time do you put towards game development these days? And how has that varied throughout your career?

Blackeye:

These days I spend a lot more time drawing, practicing my artwork, than making games. Which doesn't mean I'm not working on them [games]. But back in the day, Jon and I would be working on them all the time. When we were kids, we were working and thinking about games like all the time. When Street Fighter II came out, it was a religion for me and my friends in elementary school, I kid you not. I think around high school we stopped working on games as much -- you know: girls and alcohol and all that. But I've always had game projects in the back of my mind, and I think I always will.

The hardest part is finding good people to work with. Game development is some of the hardest creative and technical work there is, and I find it harder and harder to go it alone as time goes on.

TIGSource:

Ah, perfect. One of my next questions was this: Regarding Blackeye's Next Game, you said on the Pix Fu forums that "without He Who Shall Not Be Named, I've had to do the design, programming, and art." How's that working out for you? Do you see yourself continuing to be a one man team in the future, or are there any plans/hopes of hooking up with someone(s)?

Blackeye:

The thing about Jon and me is that we were really on the same wavelength, so game design was easy. I'd throw something out, he'd add something to it, and vice versa - we always moved forward. It's hard to find someone who shares your same creative vision.

I find it hard to work on teams where I have to make compromises because of creative differences. The worst part for me is programming, which is interesting, because I went to college to learn it. Because it's rather technical, I find that it slows me down creatively. I have to switch gears too much, you know?

So the best thing for me is to find a cool person who's creatively capable and also enjoys doing the programming. And I've found people like that through the Internet, so that's good.

The short answer is that I've got just-me projects, and projects I'm working on with other people, as well.

TIGSource:

Oh, do tell! All I've heard is a little bit about "Blackeye's Next Game."

Blackeye:

Haha, well, I'd better not. I know too well the perils of hype. Let's just say you should never really expect anything with me in terms of games.

TIGSource:

[laughing] That I know from experience. Could you tell me a bit about "Blackeye's Next Game" at least?

Blackeye:

Blackeye's Next Game changes a lot, that's all I can say. Really! I'll tell you this much, though: it's not a rehash of one of our old games.

TIGSource:

Okay, well, I see I'm not going to get any info out of you on the game plans front, but regarding the future of Blackeye: it seems like from what you've been saying, between gravitating towards art and away from games (if I read you right), and losing your creative buddy Jon, that things are kind of dwindling... what's the future of Blackeye looking like?

Blackeye:

I think Blackeye's always gonna be around, in some form or another. I love games, I love making games. Like I said, I always have game ideas in the back of my mind. The Golden Age of Blackeye is over, and I think Eternal Daughter put a nice cap on that, but it'll always be around.

These days, it's just me, so it's hard to call it Blackeye. Like, I am Blackeye, haha. I like to surprise people, so when you think I'm out for the count, I'll probably try and bounce back.

TIGSource:

I remember once that you had this idea of making a living making games... is that idea still around, or are you planning on doing something else to bring in your bread and butter?

Blackeye:

Ah, hmmm... well, somewhere around college, I think I got a bit jaded about the games industry. I feel like it's a hard place for creative people. Most people want to be Sid Meier, or Warren Spector, or Shigeru Miyamoto, or something. But I started wondering: if I tried to get in the games industry, how many Spongebob Squarepants games would I have to make before I could get to do what I wanted? And making a living off of indie games is hard.

I guess it's like any industry: you have to find the right people to work with. To be honest, college also burned me out. Between trying to do art, make games, study for classes, keep up a serious relationship, go out and have fun and meet new friends... If you want to be a game programmer, you have to really love programming. After college, I wasn't sure that I really did, I guess. And you can't just jump into the games industry as a designer.

Sorry, that was kind of rambling... haha, I feel like I have to give Cliffs Notes for everything I say. The Cliffs: making freeware let's me make games the way I want to. I think I'll have to find another way to make a living, and that's what I'm trying to figure out right now!

TIGSource:

Sounds good. By the way, where did all your old games go [the ones that aren't on your site anymore]? Do you not realize that Snow Brawl is a freakin' classic (besides being your second highest rated game on Underdogs)? Bugger Bungee? Dive & Destroy? Trigger Happy (hehe)?

Blackeye:

Hmmm, good question. I have a horrible habit of hating my old work and trying to bury it so I don't have to be reminded of how bad I used to be. I think I'm getting over that a little, so I'll try and put them back on the site.

I know people like Snow Brawl... I wonder why that's not up, actually… it was a good idea for a game. Our best ideas came real quick, and then we just made the game in like a weekend. It was really spontaneous game design, which I think is cool. Well, Eternal Daughter is an exception to that, of course. That was more of a lesson on perseverance.

TIGSource:

Speaking of your games, which is your favorite Blackeye game?

Blackeye:

Probably Eternal Daughter. When I play it today, I'm very proud of it. Right after we finished it, I couldn't even touch it for a long time, since it's development was such a headache at times. But looking at it now, I think that you can tell it was a labor of love, despite all its little flaws.

TIGSource:

Indeed. What about indie games in general... can you name a couple of your favorites?

Blackeye:

I'd say Gish and Mutant Storm are the last two indie games I really enjoyed. I purchased both of them. I feel like indie games are becoming quite "legitimate," these days, which I'm happy about. To say that commercial games are getting stale would be like beating a dead horse. I'm excited about Darwinia. And there are, of course, countless smaller indie games that I pick up that I have a great time with: I love finding those little games that fly under the radar.

TIGSource:

Could you name a couple of those, just for fun?

Blackeye:

Hum, well, there was this little Ninja game on GameHippo a little while ago called Ninkujin, I think. It was a good find. Simple as hell graphics, but you could do some neat things that really made you feel like a ninja. A lot of commercial ninja games don't even capture that feeling as well, really. And I love all of Kenta Cho's shooters, like Torus Trooper.

TIGSource:

Ah, another Kenta Cho fan [Metanet, of my last interview, are huge Kenta Cho fans].

Blackeye:

Yeah, of course!

TIGSource:

I think we're winding down here, but could you answer just one more question?

Blackeye:

Sure.

TIGSource:

How is it that you're so good at so many things (design, graphics, art, programming)? Would you call yourself the gaming equivalent of someone like, oh, I don't know… Howard Hughes? Did you work hard to become the phenomenon that you are, or was it all pure genius?

Blackeye:

Aw, geez! I'm no genius, let me tell you that. I think I worked hard, but I worked hard at things that I really love. I'm definitely stronger in some areas than in others, and I've had the benefit of having supportive friends and family. And also some really talented friends... When you're around the right people, it can really push you towards being the best you can be.

TIGSource:

Okay, well, I'll have to try that recipe out.

Well, thanks a lot for your time. Anything else you want to say to the world through the incredibly popular and influential portal that is tigsource.com?

Blackeye:

Haha, well... I feel like I should say something with some entertainment value to make up for all the boring drivel I've spouted, but...

What the hell, I guess I'll give some advice to the youngsters who want to make games:

1. Start with small projects and build up to bigger ones. If you can't finish Pac-Man, then you can't finish your RPG with a thousand characters in it.

2. The last 10% of a game's development is the hardest.

3. If you love games and you love making games, then tell your parents to bugger off when they say you should be studying. Don't drop out of school, but you know better than them what you should and shouldn't be learning. Grades can only take you so far.

4. If you get famous, give me a job to repay me for my good advice.

That's all.

TIGSource:

Great. Well, thanks again!

Blackeye:

Thanks, it's been fun!