TIGSource » TIGArchive » Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP

Shpydir

I'm trying really hard to be nice and patient with you, but you're wrong. You're as wrong as you could be without coming back around the other side and being right again. I worked in the industry and Microsoft didn't develop our games, they made the hardware the game ran on. Our publisher didn't develop our games, they paid for them and marketed them (and believed in them, etc). We developed our games. There's a whole ecosystem of people that are involved in putting a game out that you're just not understanding. That ecosystem is different depending on what platform(s) the game is for.

I've been snarky because you've called me a bunch of names, but I really do want you to understand. Hell, I want you to understand it, get excited about it, and learn how to make games. I want everybody to at least try it. You're already here, take a lurk around the forums and ask how to get started.

It's up to you: keep posting rude, ignorant things on the internet; or educate yourself and maybe discover a hobby you never knew you'd like. It's one thing to make Mario jump by pressing a button; it's a whole other world to make Mario.

http://www.isti.cnr.it/~tarini mtarini

Many people here seem to fail to see that the iDevices, like them or not, are one huge frontier for innovative gameplay design.

That's due to an unique junction of: peculiar input streams (dual touch screens, dynamometers, …), unified *stardardized* hi-quality hardware, easy to use and cheap distribution, different fruition of the product by end users (hand held devices).

So, if you want to personally (or have to) stay out of it, fine, but let Superbrother and others exploit all that, explore new revolutionary possibilities and widen the array of gameplay paradigms as we know them, for the good of all.

Briker Ed

I don't quite agree with you on a few points.
It's true that mostly no one buys iWhatever primarily for gaming, but that doesn't mean good games shouldn't be released for iOS. Even exclusive to iOS. As far as I gathered, Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP isn't a particularly 'big' game in terms of length or content, and as such I find it to fit perfectly into the overall app market.
They possibly could adapt the mechanic to suit the PC, but as someone else mentioned, that'd take time and more money, and the feeling wouldn't be the same anyway, since this was developed with touch-screen controls from the start (just like playing a DS game on a PC emulator isn't the same as the real thing, for crude example).

If Apple did throw any money at them to make it exclusively for iOS, so what? That doesn't lessen the game's value, in my opinion. Just narrows the public. I could cry till I die for all the games, on all the platforms, indie or mainstream, that I wasn't/won't be able to play in my lifetime. If we were to follow the same reason, 'no reason not to release on desktop platforms' then it'd apply to some bigger games, done by bigger, more experienced teams, with more funding, that never make it to desktop platforms.
Some teams and individuals make games cause they can & like, just for pure pleasure, some want to earn money doing so…. if Apple really did play any role in making this game iOS exclusive in the first place.

Furthermore, I don't think the App market is killing anything. Be it creativity or whatever you wanna call it. If anything, it just gives us another option, with its own limitations to develop games. Just like Nintendo's DS (3DS), or PSP, Wii, PC etc. have their own limitations and challenges. Just let the people make games on whatever system they want – play them if you can, and if you can't, well…. you can't.

garlandobloom

True dat. S&S is a game which is designed specifically to the strengths of the device that it is released on. It would not work on a PC. It is not a flash game, it is an entirely new vision of what a game can be, taking full advantage of the differences between the iPad and a PC.

Funkycaribou

i'm a hipster idiot, and I think this looks awesome.
luckily I have a second-hand iphone, so I'll be able to play it, because I could never afford an ipad. But I would rather play it on computer, if it were released for it.

Funkycaribou

Then again, the gameplay might not be conducive to PC anyway. If they designed a game around touch hardware, it might make sense to release it on touch hardware.

it's too bad they're ignoring a clearly superior demographic by not releasing it on the system you want them to.

http://twitter.com/ScyllaGames Scylla Games

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple did send the developers some cash to make it exclusive. And so what? Good on them I say. It's not about greed and selling out, it's about staying alive in a cut-throat industry. They obviously chose the path they thought best. These two guys spent a lot of time and energy making a game with love and want to be rewarded for their work. What's wrong with that? Do they somehow 'owe' PC gamers something?
Gamer entitlement indeed!
I will buy it on my touch when it comes out.

anthonyflack

What a bunch of whining babies.

“Nobody plays games on the iPad! The iPad sucks for games”
“Oh noes, the iPad now has exclusive games designed for it that I want to play!”

They even have the nerve to charge ACTUAL CASH MONEY for you to play it! Outrageous!

Jeye

rather than mudslinging could we agree it would be nice to see this on other platforms?

Jeye

somehow i dont see that sort of payment matching the sales they would find on other platforms.

Jeye

unless it uses multitouch, i dont see how you can claim that

Jeye

some people might find they cannot justify buying a new system just for an exclusive or two they are interested in. I would never buy an iPad because i am keenly aware that i have no need for such a device. if s&s comes out for nothing else, it will be a shame both because some of us wont buy an ipad just to play it, and because superbrothers would be losing those potential sales

anthonyflack

The same argument could equally be applied to any platform.

If the iPad gains enough exclusive games that you are interested in, at some point you may find yourself wanting one after all. It's just the same as buying a PS3 or anything else that has exclusives. You know, if you never bought a Dreamcast, then that's a shame too, because there are some excellent games on the Dreamcast.

As to whether Superbrothers feels like it's worth porting a game over to a system that might not actually be appropriate for it, which may not attract so many sales and is likely to see a significant amount of piracy, I guess is entirely up to Superbrothers.

It's really no different to moaning about how Nintendo haven't released the new Pilotwings game on the PC. (Ok, so it's a little bit different since Nintendo also own the device, so of course they would never – but from the consumer's point of view it's the same deal).

anthonyflack

Sure, I guess so. But it's also nice to see developers fully commit themselves to one platform in order to make full use of its particular featureset, sometimes.

Maybe an Android port would be more appropriate.

Shpydir

It does use multitouch. I've played it. It doesn't use it a lot so far, but it does use it.

Consumatopia

It seems more reasonable to purchase multiple consoles than it is to purchase multiple tablets or multiple phones. Home consoles can all sit on the same shelf, but portable hardware all competes for the same space in my pocket or bag.

I don't know if there's any cross-platform way to make games for Android and iOS, but if there is I hope it becomes more popular because the game situation on Android really kind of sucks now.

anthonyflack

Heh, you don't have to carry them all around at the same time! I have a whole stack of different handhelds; they all sit on the shelf too :)

As for cross-platform compiling, well it's only just come out last month, so it's still a bit green, but I have started playing around with Monkey (http://www.monkeycoder.co.nz) which cross-compiles to Android, iOS, Flash, HTML5, Win & Mac (via openGL) and XNA (Windows & Xbox 360). Needless to say, that's pretty cool.

Consumatopia

Now that you mention it, I've got a pile of old handheld gaming devices too.

But…I dunno, it just seems different today. I've got a Droid, a ThinkPad, and a Kindle all competing for space in my bag. Carrying a dedicated gaming device like a 3DS or an iPod Touch doesn't make anywhere near as much sense to me as it did a decade ago.

It might just be that I'm old. ;-)

Rubereaglenest

Everyone has a point here, pro i and contra i. The truth it's a pity Android has little good games, and everybody innovating prefer to go to i. Such a pity, because Android has flash and usb, (today flash is indispensable for a gamer).

Guest

I don't know what you're going on about – your parents clearly fall into category 3 (pure content consumers who don't really need a computer to “do” anything).

Furthermore, I am not implicating that all consumers of Apple products are “iZombies” – but it would be silly to suggest that there are not Apple fanboys who will purchase any and every Apple product – they are “iZombies”. While a pejorative may be unnecessary it is really just trying to capture the specific sect of fanboyism with an apt moniker.

http://profiles.google.com/piecewise66 brad newby

It's pretty and all but I'm not gonna throw down several hundred to buy a repurposed tablet pc with a shitty operating system and gimmicky features just to play something that looks like the equivalent of a flash game. It think going for an ipad release is just bad business, I mean, look at the thread. Look how many people are complaining because they don't have an ipad but want to play this. Look how many people actually have an ipad here, it's like 2 out of 70 people.

They may have gotten some sweet kickback money out of apple, but I doubt it would equal the money they could have gotten selling this for pc. Notch is up to what, 33 million now? If he released for ipad we would never have heard of him. ipad just seems like way to limited a market to be a sound business market.

As per problems with interface, I'm not seeing it. True, I don't have a touch screen on my pc, but I have the thing the touch screen is a less effective imitation of : a mouse. I can point and click just as well as you can point and poke. As for rotating the screen or something, why not just bind that to a key? Press F to flip the screen. As far as I'm aware of the ipad doesn't have any features which couldn't be replicated on a pc release with a little bit of work.

I dunno, I don't feel entitled to this game or anything, and I don't even feel like I'm really missing out on much as it is, but I worry that Superbrothers is putting a lot of time and effort into an exclusive console game that simply won't reach the markets they want it to. I mean, pc gaming is the backbone of the indie gaming world, no where else is it so prevalent, profitable or established. Leaving these safe and bountiful waters for the relative dead sea of the ipad just seems like a voyage destined for tragedy.

anthonyflack

Yeah because bitchy indie game fans who complain about *anything* not being on the PC, and complain whenever something isn't given away for free for that matter, are such a lucrative market. Yessir, if you want to get rich you should definitely target the TIGsource community. That's why nobody is making iOS games, because the PC game market is so much more profitable.

Oh wait, no, *everybody* is making iOS games. I wonder why they would choose to publish their games in such a dead sea. Oops, wait again, the iPad is predicted to sell 28 million units this year.

Sure, I know, your average typical PC game like Minecraft sells way more than 28 million units, which is why most people who release indie PC games are multi-millionaires. But occasionally, an indie game released on iOS, like say Angry Birds, does reasonably okay too, so it's not completely impossible to make at least a little bit of money on iOS. I mean, it's nothing compared to the fortune most PC game developers rake in, but you could live on it.

But yeah, I suppose Superbrothers could have chosen to sell out and release on the PC and become rich like everybody else. As you say, they could have just added key bindings instead of using the tilt controls. And if the game uses multi-touch, well, you can always plug in a second mouse for that. But perhaps they wouldn't have gotten so much attention if it was a PC game anyway. After all, it just looks like a Flash game, whatever that means.

anthonyflack

“iOS installed base will be at least 250 million by the end of 2011 if current iOS sales rates stay the same. However, iOS sales rates have been doubling every year so this figure is enormously conservative.”

http://www.mobilebusinessbrief…

Consumatopia

I believe Minecraft is coming to iOS and Android:
http://kotaku.com/#!5766336/of…

I have to wonder–won't the Redstone switches count as an license-violating “interpreter” ;)

Lots of folks have made money on iOS, and the platform does have some technical advantages over others.

But I would never release anything on iOS, game or otherwise. I never want to be in a position where my income is dependent on Apple's arbitrary app store decisions. iOS is like Singapore–everything is beautiful, clean, functional, but step out of line or speak out of turn and you're gonna get caned. iOS might be a place where indies can make money, but it's no place for indie culture.

Tiganon

i bought an iPod Touch just for gaming. You have been proven wrong. And yes, JUST for gaming. I already owned a perfectly suitable (and, in many ways, superior) mp3 player. I just wanted access to the Touch games.

I already own every other system I can think of save the PSP and Nintendo's new 3DS. So why not buy it if there are games I want to play on it?

Tiganon

“most people who release indie PC games are multi-millionaires”

You, sir, are hilarious. +1 internets to you.

http://twitter.com/ScyllaGames Scylla Games

Yes, I do understand, but just because you don't see it doesn't make it not so. Maybe apple really did make it worth their while. Like I said, the brothers made a certain choice with all the information they had, which we don't have. Clearly it was in their best interest to do it that way. And perhaps money is not 100% of their goal.

http://profiles.google.com/piecewise66 brad newby

1. Number of ipads sold=/= specific game sales. You can tell me how well that scavenged tablet pc is doing till you're blue in the face, but that doesn't equate to game sales.

2. Angry birds, along with 99% of the iOS market of games are just time wasting programs themed a round a single concept, ie hit shit with birds, cut fruit, drop candy in a lizard's mouth etc. It's casual games, the kind of pop-cap shit that is ruining the indie scene by transforming it into a gimmick extravaganza. S&S certainly doesn't seem to fit into that category though, so chances are it won't sell well because it's not what the iOS market seems to want. I hope I'm wrong and it brings some actual value to the iOS game market, but something tells me the hipsters, business men, and causal gaming moms that use “angry birds” to while away 10 minutes waiting for the bus won't like an un-ironic adventure game.

3. Note that I never said that PC game makers all got rich, but it's certainly easier to get known when you're selling for a console that almost everyone has. I may not have a ipad, or whatever 10 year old technology apple is pushing currently, but I have a pc, as does practically everyone else.

4. Why not release across multiple platforms? The only reason why this is ipad exclusive is because they decided to make it that way. It doesn't need any of the gimmicky actions they added to make use of the ipad's technology any more then killzone 3 needed to make use of the Playstation Move. Release on multiple platforms and you'll get all that glorious ipad money as well as all the pc cred.

5.When it comes right down to it, the Ipad is not a serious gaming console any more then any cell phone is. Why? Because it is neither marketed nor designed as one. When you want to buy a gaming system, do you think “oh, I'll get an ipad”? No, you don't. The games on the ipad are just extras. It's graphics trail the Wii, it's top selling games are just reiterations of the same tired flash games which clog the Internet (angry birds is just a physics building destroyer, Medieval is a lack luster and shallow 2d rts, pinball is fucking pinball, and sudoku is just sadoku), and it lacks the sophistication of control or power to create really in depth or complex programs. Not to mention that the iOS market and Apple in general are not friendly to indie developers. Face it, ipad may get games, may even get some good ones, but it will never rise to the level of consoles built with gaming in mind, or meet the versatility of a good desktop pc.

Also, replying to people in a snide manner like you did, only reinforces the stereotype that all ipad owners are insufferable pricks.

anthonyflack

I'm not even an iPad owner, and I couldn't care less about reinforcing your prejudices (based, as far as I can tell, on no hard evidence whatsoever, just your own feelings about how things are, speculating on sales figures you don't have for a game you haven't played for a market you haven't researched).

Talking about “serious gaming platforms” is a joke. The Kindle is the furthest thing imaginable from a “serious gaming platform”, but there are still people who make a tidy living making games for it. Who cares whether you think it's a serious platform or not? Not these developers, or their customers. No need to fly into a nerd rage any time somebody develops something you might want to play on a platform you don't own.

Also, your points 1 and 3 contradict each other.

Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP

By: Derek Yu

On: March 29th, 2011