Game Tunnel’s Top 100 Indie Games… Makes Me Sad

By: Derek Yu

On: July 13th, 2007

I’ve seen this top 100 list posted in a number of places and everyone seems quite positive about it. Why is no one mentioning that half the links have affiliate referral codes in them? The more I think about it, the more I am horrified by it. What we have here is an indie gaming news site run by a Reflexive employee, hosted by a Pop Cap studio, running a list called “The Top 100 Indie Games” that is little more than a portal front page. What the goddamn hell?! Can someone explain this? Russ, c’mon now!

Jesus, Big Kahuna Reef at #25. A fucking match 3 with shitty graphics that even Mike Hommel declares to be “dull.” Sigh. Sometimes I wonder if I’m living in an alternate universe where bad, boring games are considered good. Seriously, someone who likes this game tell me what interests them about it. Tell me what is compelling about clicking clam shells to make them match up. The graphics are terrible. Anywhere else but in the independent gaming community, and this game would be laughed at. Quantum physics is easier to understand than why Big Kahuna Reef deserves to be the twenty-fifth top indie game of all time.

There are some good games in there, and I don’t want to devalue them. Unfortunately, they are already being devalued just by existing on that list with Big Kahuna Reef. And that goalkeeper simulator. That’s right, a text-based goalkeeper simulator made the list. And honestly, a text-based goalkeeper simulator could be fun, but I happen to know for a fact that this one is terrible.

I’ve heard some people say that they wished Cave Story on there. I don’t. That would be like saying you wished your best friend was on a list of the “top one hundred greatest people” but at #25 was that guy who killed Jon Benet Ramsey.

I don’t hate casual games. I hate the mentality that surrounds casual games. And I don’t want people to think that this is what independent games are about. I can’t believe people think this is alright. It’s like someone farted at the dinner table and no one wants to admit that it smells. Over at the Indiegamer forums I just know that the conversation is going like this: “Honey, this chicken is delicious!”

WELL YOU KNOW WHAT IT SMELLS TERRIBLE IN HERE AND IF THINGS KEEP UP THIS WAY NO ONE IS GOING TO WANT TO EVER HAVE DINNER WITH US.

Russ, I implore you… please take out the affiliate links and change the name from the “Top 100 Indie Games” to “100 Indie Games that Game Tunnel Recommends.” In the end, opinions are opinions. But at least that way it’s semi-honest.

EDIT: Guert from our forums started up a thread about a week and a half ago before GT’s Top 100 list about introducing people to indie games. In case you want some alternatives. And I really hope you do!

Posted in Casual, Community

fuck

I like the way you knock these guys down to win some fans over, yet you’re the one working for the same bunch of devils.

‘Smooth Criminal’.
Cas

Werd.
eh?

“Derek Yu Joins GameTunnel”
I think not…
Derek

Who’s working for anyone? I’m not getting paid. And if I’m given the opportunity to go in there and express my opinion, I’ll take it, and I don’t think that has anything to do with how I should feel about the top hundred. At least this way I can make a difference to the site, instead of being forced to just whine about it all the time. And I admit, I am whiny about it. But if someone else said something, I wouldn’t feel like I have to.

And what makes you think this would win me any fans? All it seems to be doing is getting me hassled by you!

Don’t feel like there’s any kind of conspiracy here. I just write whatever I’m feeling at the time, and sometimes I go off on a rant. Deal with it.
Eric

Most indie games suck anyway.
Derek

Of course, I wouldn’t blame Russ at all if he didn’t want to have me on the panel next month because of what I say about the top hundred. But I’d still be happy to be there, and while I’m there (just one month, to clarify), it will be about the games and what I think of them and not about what I think of the site.

In both cases, I’m just expressing my opinions and trying to change the way people view the community.
Jim Miles

>Iâ€™ve heard some people say that they wished Cave Story on there. I donâ€™t. That would be like saying you wished your best friend was on a list of the â€œtop one hundred greatest peopleâ€ but at #25 was that guy who killed Jon Benet Ramsey.”

Hahaha! Brilliant. There’s something almost Dennis Miller about it.
http://mooktown.blogspot.com/ papamook

its not a real “top 100 anything” if cave story aint there
rinkuhero

A lot of the games on the list definitely don’t deserve to be there (Kahuna among them), but I don’t think it’s true that the bad eggs spoil the rest. If the top 100 movies of all time includes Titanic or something stupid like that, the rest of the list would still be worth looking into.
Derek

I agree, rinku. A good number of those games deserve to be on a list of good games and my intention was not to dissuade anyone from trying them.

What frustrates me is that it’s called the “Top 100 Indie Games,” which implies that this is the best independent gaming has to offer. And that would be… Big Kahuna Reef? I don’t understand how anyone would think to put that game there. It looks mediocre even for a casual game.

Glow Worm, which I reviewed for IGF two years ago, is a matching casual game that is a million times better than Big Kahuna. The presentation is amazing and the mechanics are actually something to write about. I scored it well, so don’t think I hate on every casual game that comes out.

So what gives?

Then you see all the affiliate links and honestly, whatever the real reasons are, it just makes everyone involved look really bad. That includes you and me, independent developers who are going to be lumped together with this whole affair by people who don’t know any better.

And I’m extra miffed because Guert started that thread last week that I feel comes from so much more of a pure place than this…
DrDerekDoctors

LOL! Great post, Derek. I was mystified by some of the entries on that list meself, but hadn’t noticed the affiliate link things.
rinkuhero

Wow, I just looked up Glow Worm and you’re right, it looks really nice. *downloads*
moi

FUKEEN SIGNED!!!
SHILLS!!!!!!
rinkuhero

That site has always used affiliate links, so it’s nothing new. I’m not too chagrined about them, virtually all sites that review shareware games use them. I prefer when there’s full disclosure though, something like an “(affiliate link)” tag after each.
rinkuhero

And — stars are turned into italics? Boo.
murse

What are the affiliate links? The links to the websites? That seems kind of standard.
http://www.gibbage.co.uk Dan

Back when I had a blog, and Gibbage was in their round up, I published a comment about how I found it ‘a bit off’ that they slagged off my game, and then asked to be an affiliate twenty minutes later.

Somewhat hypocritical, perhaps.

Russ had a proper go at me in the comments section, telling me he considered it a personal attack on his character or some such.

GameTunnel is terrible in so many horrible horrible ways, and people need to stop assuming it’s the be all and end all of Indiedom because it’s not, it’s shit.
DrDerekDoctors

Wait, I don’t get what you’re saying Dan. Could you break it down for me? ;)
Hooker with a penis

Amen to this post, Derek! Right with ya! =)
Hunty

Derek, I like the cut of your jib.
http://www.gibbage.co.uk Dan

This is the comment Russ left on the old Gibbage.co.uk blog about affiliates…

> For the record I try to affiliate every game in the round-up. That affiliation goes beyond the round-up to reviews and any other feature we may do. Game Tunnel takes a tremendous amount of work. My guess is that Gibbage saw some sales due to the round-up. I donâ€™t have a problem with not getting affiliation on every game (usually affiliated games are in the minority on the round-up, check the history, though they are certainly a big piece of what makes GT goâ€¦since we arenâ€™t funded primarly by ads like other major game sites) or taking some shots at GT (after all we take shots at the game, itâ€™s fair turn-around), but the statements about the affilation piece (as they were never addressed thusly with me) I believe would have been better addressed with me personally as they appear to be a personal stab.

For the sake of petty argments, Gibbage saw no discernable boost in sales because of GameTunnel, either the round up or the full review… I’ve had precisely zero hits from them in months.
Dan MacDonald

Well hmm, Derek was obviously kinda angry when he wrote this, and I see his point. But there are a lot of good games on the list that actually deserve some visibility. The guys at Moonpod are some of the coolest indies around and I have no problem seeing Mr. Robot at the top of the 100 games in that list. I have to admit I was surprised to see a game I developed at #17 :| Regardless of the merits of what games are and aren’t included in the list, it will give some visibility to a lot of deserving Indies (and some not so deserving)
Hmm

Why feature the shitastic games at all then?

Why not create a list that has some kind of consistent logic to it?
greg

Theres something wrong with an “indie” top-100 list that doesn’t have Cave Story in at least the top 10.
Shabadage

Ironically, someone just yesterday tried to tell me that relexive is a haven for original puzzle games. I laughed, but the joke stopped being funny after the 100th match 3 game.
King-N

No cave story OR
Lyle in cube sector OR
Within a deep forest OR
knytt OR
A game with a kitty OR
it’s sequel?
What IS this?!
Zaphos

Aren’t they just going by their panel review scores? I don’t think Cave Story was reviewed in a panel, so it naturally wouldn’t be on the list. And the rest of the list would be about as valid as the panel’s scores in general.

This is just not the way top N lists are done, properly, since they’re better if constructed with a consistent viewpoint and an eye to what was temporarily exciting and what was long-lasting quality.

But aside from them having their heads far enough up their asses to label it the “Top 100 Indie games from the last 3 years!” instead of the less dramatic but honest “top scoring games that we gave panel reviews in the past 3 years” … well, it’s not a surprising list. The problems with it are the same problems with gametunnel panel reviews in general.
King-N

http://www.gametunnel.com/gamespace.php?id=333&tab=3
That, was there (pathetic) review.
Dan MacDonald

Zaphos is correct, it is purely based on the subjective reviews of the panel members and only contains games reviewed by the panel.
greg

ayye, this PC Zone top-101 list made sense to me
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=164289

I think that’s because it was debated between a group of people that play games and not necessarily review them for a living.
Koach

I agree with Zaphos completely, but that aside: who’s visiting game tunnel regularly anway? I mean, how much impact does their opinion really have on the community? Maybe I have the wrong picture of GTs potency, but is it worth spending energy on an output that is know to be hard to take seriously and rigid in it’s ways?
Zaphos

King-N, just to be clear, that’s not a “panel” review.
Ian

Regarding the affiliate links. Does anyone remember when GameTunnel first started several years ago they wanted you to PAY them to review your games?
nullerator

Yeah, that always seemed a bit …I don’t know, corrupt?
http://www.rampantgames.com/blog/ Coyote

Heh! A little snark is good for the soul.

I agree with Russ on the affiliation deal, for what it’s worth.

But seriously, look at it for what it really is… It’s a chance to re-use some old work and content (3 years of monthly round-ups) with a SEO-ized title to improve traffic.

So it’s all based on previous review scores, from what I can tell. There’s no wrongdoing with him ‘sneaking’ a Reflexive game up in the top quarter. If you’ve got a beef with this, then it’s with the earlier reviews… not this summary.

In my conversation with Russ last week, he mentioned some frustration about getting and keeping an audience for the “real” indie games on GT. He said the indie game features, in spite of his best efforts, are losing traffic (and downloads), while the casual games section (which he does almost nothing to promote) keeps growing in terms of traffic, downloads, and conversions.

He expressed a strong desire to fix this, to get more attention on the indie games (even he is beginning to distinguish the two as separate categories). This sounds like one of his efforts.

So yeah, some criticism is fair (and warranted), but I do believe he’s trying to improve the visibility of “indie” games in general (and, from a less altruistic angle, the visibility of GT specifically… not that there’s anything wrong with that…)
Twisted Rabbit

Cool, this and Sony bitching out Microsoft has made my day great. GO Derek Yu and Peter Dille!!
Twisted Rabbit

Cool, this and Sony slapping Microsoft in the face has made my day great. GO Derek Yu and Peter Dille!!
Skaldicpoet9

I agree with Derek, this is a terrible list. I mean “Mexican Motor Mafia” at number 5! why? I could have made a better game blind folded. But there are some decent games on there like Geneforge 3….but there seems to be a lack of the games that, to me, are no-brainers: Chalk, Echoes and Democracy to name a few. But hey, I’d take TIGS any day over Game Tunnel so I guess it’s just a matter of good taste lol.
http://isadorblog.blogspot.com Isador21

Where the feck is Toribash??
And Crimsonland?? Evil Invasion can kiss my ***, Crimsonland all the way!
fish

also, their layout sucks.
http://www.flashbangstudios.com/ Matthew

By the way, on affiliate links and portals–the developer sees the same percentage whether or not the sale is direct/affiliate. The affiliate commission comes out of the portal’s share (in this case, Reflexive).
PoV

… yeah… probably would have been less angering if it was called a “Top 100 Best of the Round Up”.
moi

Some of you try to excuse the absence of Cave story by saying that they only put the games that they tested with a panel.
But, they only test commercial games anyway!(because it gives them a chance to affiliate) that’s the reason why there are no freeware games on their panels and thus on their list.
So yeah they have no excuse.
PHeMoX

Wik: Fable of Souls at #11 ? Like Hell no, it should be high up in the top 5 somewhere! Didn’t Russel give it an
“Overall: 10”?

The whole affiliate thing makes it even more questionable, just look at games like Chromadrome, it’s by far not a near perfect game at all, even for a 2004 game…
Cas

As said before: it’s based on the panel scores in the roundups. No other games featured in there.
PHeMoX

The more I look at this top 100, the less it all makes sense.

Fizzball, Oasis, Wik:FoS, Blast Miner, Chocolate Castle, Armadillo Run, Winds of Odyssey, Bullet Candy, Trash (at #100 can you believe it? It’s an awesome multiplayer RTS.) … aw man these are all way under-rated, heck even Darwinia deserves a higher place than #60 :S!

(yes, I think Darwinia was a bit hyped, but it’s still a really great game nonetheless.)
haowan

yep when the “rating” for a fucking game is either “pass”, “try” or fucking “BUY”, you know a site is ALL ABOUT THE SPONDULIX and not about the gameplay or whatever. Fucking moneygrabbing whores. Fuck you. Yes I’m drunk again.
JohhnyLook

Looks like this crap (http://www.qbicles.com) is better than Sam & Max: Episode 6… lolz
PoV

> yep when the â€œratingâ€ for a fucking game is either â€œpassâ€, â€œtryâ€ or fucking â€œBUYâ€

Hahaha. Everybody else says the site sucked when it was handing out numerical score. :)
PoV

Wait… I missed the pun. Scratch that comment. :)