World of Goo’s 90% Piracy Rate

By: Derek Yu

On: December 23rd, 2008

This came up waaay back when, during our site outage, and it was reposted all over the place, but it’s important enough that I thought it was worth bringing up again here: 2DBoy reported that, by dividing the number of unique IPs in their highscore boards by their total number of sales, they estimated the number of pirated copies of games out there as anywhere between 82-90%. This created a lot of hubbub over the high percentage, but I think the most interesting part of the discussion is this:

either way, ricochet shipped with DRM, world of goo shipped without it, and there seems to be no difference in the outcomes. we canâ€™t draw any conclusions based on two data points, but iâ€™m hoping that others will release information about piracy rates so that everyone could see if DRM is the waste of time and money that we think it is.

It’s interesting to note that this is also the year that EA released Spore with some insanely crippling DRM, and it won top honors as the most pirated game of 2008. On the other hand, indies had the opportunity to experiment by trying out DRM-free solutions, posting numbers, and even talking directly to pirates themselves. Another nice little freedom that independence enjoys.

Speaking of 2DBoy, they’ve also been kept busy winning like every award on IGN, and also Indie Game of the Year at the Spike Video Game Awards, an honor that was bestowed to them by NPH (Neil Patrick Harris) of all people! You can watch an interview with them on SpikeTV here.

Posted in Community, Developers, Videos | Tags: 2DBoy

PHeMoX

I’m sure all has been said about the piracy rate and it’s accuracy, but I’m really hoping people would start to brainstorm more about s o l u t i o n s.

Perhaps some sort of online super friendly donation-ware kind of business model is the future?
Alex

PHeMoX:

Donation-ware? You’d only get 0.2% of all takers to pitch in, and likely no more than with 2 or 3 dollars… Such donations are very nice and flattering to get when your game is freeware and they are not required, but they’re not a realistic commercial model.
AmnEn

So, someone help me understand… what they basically did was take the amount of IPs their Database has gathered and compare it to their sales?

What about providers with dynamic IP ranges? Everytime I start up World of Goo, I start it with a different IP as everytime I login I’m automatically assigned a new one.
So, honestly… someone explain to me how IP versus Sales is an accurate figure?
Snow

How many of those unique IP’s belonged to the same person though? We have a problem with a circuit at home which sometimes causes the power to my modem to shut off. My IP can change as frequently as every 2 days. My ISP also has the odd network trouble which also causes me to be reassigned a new IP. Is 90% really accurate.

I’m a hardcore gamer myself, but most of my games I buy. When it comes to piracy, I have some old school emulators and play games like Secret of Mana 2 or Earthbound Zero. That’s about as bad as I get. I’d rather buy and feel safe knowing that my game registration key is unique and my own. I can be 99.99% sure that no one will steal that key and I can also prove it is mine, should it be stolen. Actually owning a game is so hassle-free as compared to playing a pirated game. With a pirate copy, your key could be banned anytime, it doesn,t work right, it’s filled with trojans, you actually get caught downloading it and police literally get involved (happened to some shmuck who downloaded guitar hero),etc.

Of course there are still those who will waste their bandwidth and time finding, downloading and getting a pirate game to work because they’re just too cheap to give a mere $20 to $50 for a game that is well worth the price. Yet, I still highly doubt that 90% of WoG players have pirate copies.
http://blog.wolfire.com Jeffr

In their original post, they explained how the normalized their data to account for dynamic IPs. It is really around 90%.
Patrick

I think the same principle applies whether youÂ´re game is a skill-game, F2P RPG, serious socio-economic app, securities exchange, user-created content lovefest, or all of the above. You need to decentralize the deployment of the data (which pirates will do anyway, whether you like it or not) while centralizing the processing between instances. Simple as that, youÂ´ll note thatÂ´s whatÂ´s enabled 2d Boy to get this data, had they disabled all the players who didnÂ´t purchase the game from posting high scores they may have incentivized a higher ratio of purchases than DRM ever could. However, their centralized pool of data would have had 10% the richness with this banning in place. Other examples are Starcraft, successful F2P games, Skill-games and so forth. When the business model involves this kind of dynamic, then you consolidate the unstoppable piracy of the masses into a problem of mere server and protocol security, which is tough but actually manage-able with good design.
agj

I think it’s pretty impossible to normalize the data, which is also why they didn’t (read their report carefully). It’s just not reliable data. In short, this is simply not even close to accurate.
XUE

yeah also, if you look at the (still very rough) “normalized” data, it’s around an 80% piracy rate – so 20% of all players purchased the game, and that’s without DRM. compare that to the 10% of players purchasing the game that ricochet got, using DRM.

DRM’s pretty dumb.
TheTruth

Here’s a quote from another person who posted this amazing, honest, and accurate comment on 2DBoy’s World of Goo Website regarding the piracy issue. His username was simply “NN”, from Canada, but he deserves all of the credit for this comment:

“Eventually, software developers and publishers will understand that unlicenced copying is part of your marketing effort – if anything you should facilitate it, which 2DBoy essentially has. Itâ€™s essentially the same return as you get by porting your game to a new platform – more people will see it, and they or someone they know may find it convenient to buy it. All you are selling is the service of playing your game, and many people will simply prefer to DIY – which means they combine the software package you provide with their own efforts. For some happy lucky people, the value of $20 is less than the perceived cost of that effort and they will simply buy the game. If you do want to raise their number, resolve to fight poverty in all its forms so there is more wealth to be spent on totally ephemeral luxuries like a video game.

Personally I would never have heard of this game if Iâ€™d not seen it on a BT tracker. Iâ€™m interested in game design but wonâ€™t ever buy it – I really donâ€™t even have time to play it – but the fact that I can see it, appreciate it, and maybe recommend it to a family or two that I know means that I do have some involvement with 2DBoy and their business process – I am a word-of-mouth marketer, compensated for my time and effort only by the availability of the software package itself. The brilliance of BT is that the marginal cost of that marketing possibility to the publisher is zero.

For some of the commenters here, try not to turn a business question into some kind of moral issue. Many things you pay a great deal for are available to other people for free, and vice-versa – fixed prices have always been fictional. If a service is sustainable, it will be sustained by the market – â€˜nuf said.

Decent game btw, particularly the art direction. The user interface could use a little work in parts but on the whole itâ€™s not too frustrating.”

What a great comment! That’sums it up in a nutshell but it’s very neatly stated and completely honest!
toastie

Amen!
Lyx

Personally, i think a successful approach – at least in the short-term – would go like this:

– offer the product at an affordable price (usually the case for indie games)
– make it VERY easy and comfortable to buy the product. I cannot state this enough – remove as many hurdles as possible for people wanting to compensate you!
– do not employ draconian measures against copying. Do not cripple the product. However, this does not mean that you need to actively support copying. See next point…
– offer various community extras to paying customers. Forums, chat, highscore, syndication, easy and comfortable access to mods/patches/extensions – perhaps even builtin. Then use a reliable way to identify valid users – something which cannot be circumvented with a keygen (i.e. unique random keys) – and use that to shut non-paying users out of those online community features.

Thus, what you end up with is a fully usable product which technically can easily be copied and played. Then you offer additional OPTIONAL online services in the form of additional content, socialization, competitions, etc., available only to paying customers… while at the same time making it easy and comfortable to buy the product.

So, the reason why people would compensate you, would be because they want to, its easy and afforable, plus they get additional value in the form of high comfort and online features.

IMO, for the current times, the best of all worlds.
A-nom-ynous

I’m a pirater-who-purchases, because I feel foolish supporting games I don’t end up enjoying (and the corollary is that I feel foolish pirating games I love, hence the purchases). World of Goo is not a game I see myself ever wanting to play again, let alone drop $20 on. (I’ll just play Pontifex 2 again, and again, and again)

So the system… works, I guess? I can’t help but feel like a monster sometimes for not dropping more cash into a field I have great respect for, but I’m a) too greedy and b) too far-sighted to operate any other way anymore.

(I also have high hopes for 2D Boy’s next game, whatever it ends up being!)
Quetz

A-nom-ynous, you could have tried the demo. It gives a great idea of what you’ll expect in the full game without actually being the full game.
renkin

Accurate method or not, I don’t find it hard to believe that 90% of the copies are pirated.
Dusty Spur

I pirated the game. Now I feel bad.

THANKS 2DBOY.
Xavier

Let’s not forget about the “best game no one played” award they’ve just received from gamespot.
Quetz

Peter Noone played it.
xerus

I love buying games with no DRM :D
b0rsuk

I’m planning to buy World of Goo, but there’s still no Linux version !
Cas

Droid Assault has a zero percent piracy rate.
Magallanes

Its a shame, how some games receive all the pre-production review, preview, review, awards and everything but other games are never mentioned.

I am not saying World of Goo (or braid, or n+ or pixeljunk) is a bad game, just it is not the best game around here, not at least for everyone.

Indie community is rotting in the same degreed as “non-indie games”.
PHeMoX

*Its a shame, how some games receive all the pre-production review, preview, review, awards and everything but other games are never mentioned.*

… and which brilliant but totally overlooked games are you referring to here?

I’d love to know, so we can spread the word!

(If you’re talking about your *own* games, did you really try your best at sending out enough emails to the right kind of sites? :) )
Lazarpandar

World of warcraft has a zero piracy rate, just make all games the same pay per month deal
alspal

I’m sure that would work well for indie games.
Fluroarmadillo

Well now that World of Goo is FINALLY released on WiiWare in NZ I am sooooo buying it
TheTruth

Well if you read my above quote made by another brilliant user who commented on 2DBoy’s website then that should be sufficient enough reasoning for both gamers and indie developers (it will never be enough for large publishers, since they are the problem to the solution and not vice versa).

Quite simply, if you’re worried about Piracy, don’t get into game development as a business. Make games for free or as a hobby, OR try to turn a profit and __don’t worry about piracy__. There have been a plethora of reasonable and excellent examples as to why you should not worry about piracy, likewise there have also been thoughtful examples of what you can do to promote sales and encourage prospective customers in to buying. Just look at some of the examples left by Lyx.

If you have something that people enjoy and something that people want then they will pay for it. World of Goo is that example (there have been plenty before it) but this is probably the most perfect example since they (2DBoy) took DRM and Piracy into consideration, thought about the different angles they could approach marketing and sales and discussed them carefully and went with the most thought out and thoughtful of their conclusions. In the end, even if their game has been pirated by a margin of 100 to 1, they still have sold SHITLOADS of copies! I have no idea how many direct downloads they’ve sold but it’s not hard to find out their sales rank at the large retailers nor through Nintendo’s WiiWare service. These 2DBoys have surpassed what most mainstream developers wish they could achieve. A huge following and fanbase with loyal and appreciative gamers and even people who aren’t necessarily gamers. How many smiles have they put on peoples faces by this little phenomenon called World of Goo??? How many people will wake up on Christmas morning with WoG as a gift? God only knows, but they sure are lucky SOB’s now aren’t they. I think 2DBoy has handled all of this extremely well. The only real reason I can see other gamers and even developers complain about such “Success” (yeah, yeah, piracy schmiracy), is because they are possibly envious. I’m not positive if that’s the case, but if it is then they should make a quick “About face!” and get over it!
TheTruth

BTW, cas, you’re not going to sell more copies of Droid Assault simply by saying “Droid Assault has a zero percent piracy rate.”

I appreciate your point, and you should be proud if that was your intention, to create games that aren’t pirated.

By the same token though you could combine all of your games sales and probably wouldn’t have the kind of sales that World of Goo will receive in just one year.

That’s not a knock against you or your games, I’m just talking about the numbers. You might very well be pleased with your sales and that is great and I wish you and all developers the best of luck and success.

__However__, if you do wish you had more sales, or had hoped for more (both in the past and in the present and hope for even more in the future), you will definitely have to bend your own mold to suit the market because the market won’t bend to you.

Also, that does not mean giving into greedy bastard publishers with enough DRM up the arse to please a porn star with leprosy.

Too be perfectly honest, I’m surprised more people haven’t come to the realization that the negative attention should not be towards the legions or smatterings of pirates, but instead all of this negative energy should be aimed towards the large (greedy MoFo) publishers, such as EA, Microsoft, insert_any_mainstream_name_here!

I say cut the publishers and lets somehow find a way that we can accept a game published by the developer for a much lower cost. We’ll take game discs with no art or a cover and we’ll be damn happy just to receive a jewel or dvd case of some kind. Then the developer can print ONE manual online that can be viewed at their website FOR FREE at any time. If some schmuck wants the game with a full color manual and a nice little art insert for there DVD case, oh yeah and they want to spend $25 – $30 dollars more then they can fuckin well pay for it through the big name greedy bastard publisher.

Yes, that’s making it too easy, we wouldn’t want anything too easy because then we wouldn’t fit in with the rest of the mindless drones that make up society…

Oh dear god, I’m beginning to sound like Yahtzee!!!

NEway, you get my point.
Big Lon

“World of warcraft has a zero piracy rate, just make all games the same pay per month deal”
– Lazarpandar

@Lazarpandar

Sarcasm perhaps?

With a simple search on the internet you can see that World of Warcraft is very pirated. Subscription fees games are not immune to piracy.

If all commercial had subscription fees, I just may never buy a commercial game then, and piracy would still be running rampart. I have never bought a game with subscription fees and never plan to.

It is very unfortunate about all the game piracy, and it is shocking how much World of Goo is pirated.

However, just finishing my college statistics class, I am very leery of percentages and probabilities…
Radix

Given that the gap between being interested in a game and aquiring it is trivial thanks to services like bittorrent, what this really means is that around 10-20% of the people who were interested in playing the full version of the game bought it. And that’s pretty excellent.
pkt-zer0

I’d just point to the post titled “A Special Christmas Miracle” on 2D Boy’s blog, particularly the part noting that it’s the second (give or take one) best selling PC game on Amazon. The other titles in the top three are Spore and WoW: Wrath of the Lich King.

So yeah, “piracy schmiracy”. It seems to be selling well, and that’s all that matters for being financially viable.
my computer is broken

I types up some huge post but it did not submit properly so the heck with it. So main points.

It is more handy to download, mount, and crack a game I OWN then to hunt for a CD. It really really is, but DRM does stop many people. Not everyone that saw WOG bought it or pirated it. A lot of people got it that would never consider buying it. What happens is people get more games than they would buy. You may say that games in general get devalued in general because so much can be gotten for “free”. But that is not my point it is just one of the many arguments that have no real point. We are all smart people and can draw conclusions from the world as it is. WOG is $20 but 5 months after it’s out a sweet big budget mainstream game is the same price if you hunt for a deal.

I have not played, pirated, bought, plan on buying, even considered buying this game.

Me and my friend both really do wait years to get old games for cheap. We can’t run the new computer games, and don’t have the new consoles.

I am under the impression that a game makes most of it’s money when it is new. Some games sell for ever but only the exceptional ones.
I am also under the impression that most of the policing that happens to punish downloading games and movies happens when the games are new. It is after all driven by commerce. I would not even consider downloading a game that was less than 3 years old. I only want weird movies I can’t rent or would be embarrassed to rent, and I don’t download music.

The only person I know that buys new games for himself (not gifts) is rich. That sounds simplistic but I don’t have many friends and he is someone who has enough money that he does not understand the motivations of people who don’t have much money. He would not mind paying $20 and I would never. Seriously you were never getting any money out of me. I think one of the problems with this online software model is that you leave no room for the penny pincher. There is no coupon, sale, or what ever. People would not be in the habit of looking any way. I won’t insult your intelligence by arguing this point further. Examples, solutions, risks and problems are obvious.
Craig Stern

Good Old Games offers games that are good and over 3 years old, and offers them for dirt cheap. We’re talking $5. I don’t care how poor you think you are, that’s not going to break the bank. As long as there’s a market for those games, and as long as you get the benefit of playing them, it’s really not right to deprive the developers of income for their hard work producing them.
http://www.touchmypixel.com/ Tarwin Stroh-Spijer

I find what Valve does quite interesting. They’ve been giving people that own a lot of their games on steam vouchers they can send to others for mission packs (ie Half Life 2 Episode 1). It really got me back into Half Life when someone sent me one, and I straight away went and bought Episode 2.

The best way to encourage people to lay down money for your product is to get their friends to tell them to do it. If every purchase gave you a change to send on a 30% off voucher or something then I think you’d get a higher percentage of people buying it. It’s a lot easier to answer “Can’t you just give me a copy I’m just gonna play it quickly anyway and wouldn’t have bought it” with “Come on, I’ve already giveny ou 30% off man, really, it totally worth it!”

I think it should also be noted the international economics of money makes a big difference. $20 US isn’t that much in the US, and when I bought World of Goo (before the economic crisis) it was almost an even exchange rate (to Australia) but now I’d be paying $30 Australian dollars for the same thing, which starts to get to the “that’s a lot of money for small game” category in your mind. I know you can’t start charging different amounts for people in different places but it does make a difference. Note games are already stupidly expensive here anyway so maybe we’d be used to it! ($110 for an XBox360 game anyone?)
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eobet

“If you do want to raise their number, resolve to fight poverty in all its forms so there is more wealth to be spent on totally ephemeral luxuries like a video game.”

That was the best comment I think I’ve ever read.
Cas

@TheTruth

Certainly won’t sell any more games just by saying there’s no piracy, but it’s the *reason* that there’s no piracy that might be interesting.

We specifically allow and encourage people to register copies of our games for their close friends and family, and our crappy DRM system makes that really easy.

So far it seems that people just don’t bother to pirate our games when you can just get together and share the cost of a registration and trivially give it away to people if you want. It’s very lightly restricted as well.

In other words we’ve given customers a big nod towards what they wanted, and we’ve been rewarded by a complete lack of piracy.

Except for as soon as we released TA and UT on Reflexive using their DRM, they were cracked within minutes :(
Nifflas

I don’t doubt that a whole lot of people are pirating the game, which is a really shitty thing to do, particularily towards such small software developer that really needs the money.

Of course, I’m not 100% sure how accurate the IP test would be, a lot of players might be using dynamic IP addresses, and I play World of Goo on my laptop from a lot of different wireless internet connections (I don’t have my computer at one place). By that reason, I probably show up as a whole lot of IP’s.

Having said that, I still don’t doubt that tons of people pirate this game. Having said that, I LOVE that World of Goo is DRM free, and that I can install it through any number of computer changes and hard drive formats without having to get some permission from an activation server. I’ve always been strongly against DRM since it makes the products so much worse for the legal users, and I really hope that DRM doesn’t turn out to be the only option to actually get people to pay for your products :( I’d hate to have to switch to that standpoint.
Nifflas

I wish I could edit my post above (odd use of having said that x2)
http://studioeres.com/games/ Paul Eres

That’s not that bad, mine’s probably far higher than 90%. I don’t actually measure it, but I sometimes come across pirated copies with download counts far higher than the total number of sales I’ve had, although most don’t store download counts.

I don’t mind piracy, it’s inevitable, I’ve pirated my fair share of games in my earlier years too. Although I’ve never tried to justify it by saying it’s good for developers or saying it’s a new world revolution or that other nonsense.
bateleur

eobet wrote:
That was the best comment I think Iâ€™ve ever read

The sentiment is awesome, but I’m not convinced of its relevance.

There are some people who have sufficient access to a computer to play a complete game but nonetheless cannot afford $20. These people are a small minority (computers themselves being expensive). Insofar as piracy matters as an issue, these people are not what it’s about.

The hot topic is the people who have the money and genuinely [i]could[/i] pay for the game, but would rather play it and not pay. Whether rightly or wrongly, these people are perceived by some as a potential lost source of revenue for the game’s developers.
Patrick

“Although Iâ€™ve never tried to justify it by saying itâ€™s good for developers or saying itâ€™s a new world revolution or that other nonsense.”

Paul, that might not be an attempt to justify, it might actually be a rational observation.

A more rational way of putting it is, it’s bad for developers in certain contexts, but it can be good for developers in certain contexts. A context where it is detrimental includes one where developers take an adversarial attitude.

You know about the macro-economic realities and what’s going down with global energy consumption and so forth, you should be thinking forward on this more than anyone.
Woodwolf

Well, we are talking about percentages here… We may think that 90% is a high piracy rate, but that means that a 10% actually bought a copy.

If the potential number of clients is, what, tens of millions? (anyone with an Internet connection is a potential client here), then a 10% is quite a high number. And the other 90% is advertising your product for free. I would sign anywhere to get such success!

Of course, it would be great if all of them payed for the game, but Piracy is a reality. You should better take advantage of it!
http://del_duio.sitesled.com Del_Duio

I’m curious though, would one strategy be to try to get massive exposure for your game shortly before it’s released, release the thing, and then hope that most of the people who’ll come to check it out within that first day or two buy it and hope for the best with the ones that come later? I guess what I mean is that you’re really only shooting for successful sales within that short time right at the beginning and you take what you get and like it. (?)

I’m a bit concerned myself for whenever I finish my new one because I’d like to try selling it and like others am a bit freaked of the pirate potential (however small or large that may be.) I haven’t planned any sort of online support for extra content as I’d like it to all be included in the game when they buy it. Any price I set will for sure be pretty low but it looks like that might not matter How did Aquaria or other indie games that are >= $20 do it?

Seriously though, any tips would be greatly appreciated. I still have a couple years or so to come up with a plan but I figure I’d ask you guys who have done it yourselves first. Thank you.
Nifflas

I agree that piracy is a reality that can’t really be stopped. I was just saying that pirating products from small companies is a shitty thing to do, but this is the same as when mp3 was something new. The winners weren’t those who tried to sue authors of file sharing software (new file sharing software kept showing up), the winners were those who created mp3 players and invented stores for selling music online.

Having said that, if you think World of Goo is a good game, and you can afford $20, you should pay.
lols

To be honest I did torrent it, but I only played about 4 levels and deleted it, wasn’t my scene.

I have bought cortex command and toribash this year though and plan to donate to Dwarf Fortress.

DRM is never a good option, just look how horrible it is getting CS3/CS4 for a paying customer when the rest of people just use a stolen volume serial and block ips.
Much better to talk with your customers, and I’m quite a fan of software that puts up a message saying “look I know the serial you entered is pirated but we’re only a small team so if you like using it pay for it”
Smithy

The most feasible solution to make up for lost profit at this point: More in-game commercials and billboards.
Nifflas

lols: I agree that activation can be really nasty. I try to stay legal, but that means I have to refrain from using some software completely, because privacy is important and I don’t want to inform companies when I install their products despite that I have paid for it, I shouldn’t need their servers to authorize it.

This however makes it even more important to pay for DRM-free games like World of Goo, if we should ever be able to hope for DRM-free products in the future. I don’t think it’s wrong to get the game only to see if you like it (although the demo also contains the four levels you played), but if you intended to play through all the levels, it’s important to pay!
TheTruth

This discussion is such an intriguing topic and yet it could go on forever (or until the internet no longer exists, or until Microsoft officially renames their company to Big Brother). The only problem I see with the actual discussion is we’re all very intent to be opinionated but lack the ability to listen to each other.

BTW, __cas__, I really enjoy your games and yes I have purchased them. But I think you know what I was trying to get it, I wasn’t trying to condone or promote piracy, I just feel that it needs to be treated as a fact of life otherwise the measures and restrictions that some form of online law enforcement would have us restricted on many more mundane and unimportant things than necessary. The more we complain about the little things, the more likely we’ll all suffer for any sort of reform, censorship, or restrictive access in broader areas. The squeaky wheel gets the oil, for better or worse.

To be honest I don’t think the numbers and statistics that have been reported thus far regarding the issue should be of any shock value to anyone. It’s not really shocking or disheartening. Those are emotions that should be saved for the unexpected and the unknown. Perhaps if you’re a casual gamer this might actually be news, but I’d wager that a lot the people here (including myself) are avid gamers and we’ve known about this sort of thing for years. Perhaps the number counts weren’t that important at the time, but is it really any surprise?

I agree with __Nifflas__ that it is a shitty thing to do to the smaller developers. By the same token if you can promote yourself and your games and make people take interest you will find a following of loyal and enthusiastic gamers who are honest and appreciative of the work that has gone into whatever the creation may be. It’s important not to dwell on the negative aspects. Just look at EA, then look at how many of the games under their publishing house have been pirated over the past 5 years, chock full of DRM and lousy customer service even if you did pay for the game. I still question, why do mainstream games cost so much??? Is it because the development team is made up of 100+ people (if not more?), perhaps not, is it because the games are far superior to anything you’ve ever played before and because the graphics are so good it doesn’t matter if the game suffers for it? Think about that honestly and you’ll set yourself up for some serious disappointment.

In the grand scheme of things it would be nice if the indie developer could reap the same rewards and revenues that the mainstream game companies receive. This is not the case, however, indie developers have a huge advantage over these larger companies in terms of morals, ethics, integrity, and self satisfaction. That may not stand for much these days in monetary value, but those are traits that can’t be bought.

Anyway, again, this discussion could go on forever. We should definitely take the time to consider and learn from one another though. We don’t need to agree with each other but that’s never stopped us from having one thing in common, well all love video games.
http://www.planetfreeplay.com mosh

Pirating from a small indie developer is most definitely a shitty thing to do but I seriously doubt a lot of pirates even realise how big or small many indie developers are. Piracy = less research of end product.
TakaM

man.. 90%?
That sucks.

I just gifted my brothers overseas copies of World of Goo :)

90%!?