Playing Columbine

Milk it, Danny!

Actually, this looks pretty good.

seems pretty good to me.

If he is really making a documentary on his own thing, isn’t that being a bit too self-centered? Like he feels his work is awesome just because he thinks so, instead of letting others say so.

the guy is a film-make first.
and nobody can deny the impact his game had. in the game scene *and* at large.

its not a movie about himself or his game. it’s about much more than that.
he’s perfectly qualified to make this.
its obviously a subject he cares about. enough to make a game around that subject. and then a movie.
i dont see any problem with it.

Care to give any insight as to why you think so poorly of the video, Dracko?

Hey, I know Adrian Treviño! (from the cast page) He frequents another forum I go to.

I don’t see why would anyone care about this guy.
I mean all he did was a crap and amateurish game based in a real life tragedy which by the way is nothing compared to others way worse.

He’s starving for atention and you are giving him what he wants… oh well.

Dracko: I do agree with you on those parts. Bowling for Columbine was pretty worthless in my opinion, and yeah, the Japan comment was sort of ridiculous. Our histories are much too different to do any great comparison there.

And yes, I feel it does have a tinge of ‘we’ll get publicity by being controversial’ (well, more than a tinge, actually.)

I did find some points valid, however, such as their comments about media blaming video games, and et cetera. They did not kill because they played Doom. That is as ignorant as saying Terrorists hijack planes because they play flight simulators. There has to be some seed of hatred, already fostered in one’s mind to prompt the action.

*he’s perfectly qualified to make this.*

I definitely agree.

*Most of the controversy is about whether or not he’s actually controversial.*

Definitely agree with you too. But blame it on the media and their habit of milking this stuff too, because that’s where thát problem lies. Objectively seen, is his game really all that controversial? I don’t think so.

Besides, why would it be this controversial? People made movies about 9/11, horrible vietnam movies with all the gory details and near-psychopathic war stuff all the time, why is this game such a big deal????

The best thing for him to do is milk it for what it’s worth.

_But blame it on the media and their habit of milking this stuff_

He’s milking this for all its worth. He’s got his lips on the cow’s udder.

I love how in the “presentation” scenes it seems like nobody else is in the room with him. I wonder if he just shot those in his basement to make himself look more notable.

The self-importance vibe coming off this is hard to take. Also it seems like the video will be interviews only with people who support him, and the opposing view point will only be represented by straw man arguments about how the media is evil. Not that I don’t agree, but that’s propaganda, not a documentary.

I’d love to see good impartial discussion on this. But when filmmakers put their personality into, it becomes foolish entertainment, and it cheapens an important event.

Did some podcasts about this controversy at USC where multiple panelists including Ledonne spoke http://www.deekayel.com/labels/Slamdance.html

Discussed many of the points in these comments… including whether he was “milking it” or not.

Here is a link to the original forum blog http://interactive.usc.edu/members/sfisher/archives/2007/02/imd_forum_for_2.html

The back channel log is especially interesting

http://interactive.usc.edu/members/sfisher/archives/2007/02/imdforumfor_2.html

..actual link to blog

@Firesword: Thanks, but in response to the second part of your comment; mmm, I don’t quite follow. So it’s controversial because it’s done crappy? :S Lol, that can hardly be the point of all this…

Off course everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but I don’t think it’s exactly crappy. It’s actually pretty fun to play in my opinion and it’s hardly any more serious than all those ‘kill-Osama’ flash games or ‘dress-up Bush’ things… I do not claim to know whether or not you have played the game, so don’t take this personal, but I think Mosh is right when he said:

*”The sheer amount of people that claimed this game was offensive without even playing it is ridiculous.”*

*Movies are far.. far different from a videogame.. there is no interactivity..*

Actually, the interactivity is the only difference and even then you have cross-overs on both sides.

For example the interactive graphics novels of Metal Gear Solid or other things like the old interactive adventure movies (Phantasmagoria) on one side and movies like The Blair Witch project on the other side or more obvious, the first person shooter part of the Doom movie.

I, and so did many before me, predict a future in which the line between games and movies only becomes more vague. It’s really not that different.

*Not that I don’t agree, but that’s propaganda, not a documentary.*

True, but then again… how else would you be able to a.) get enough attention to make people see your movie in the first place and b.) go against all the media spraying there anti-propaganda nonsense? Because honestly, you don’t need to provide the ‘other side’ of this story… the media have been reporting about what théy think is wrong all along.

I think you should look at the documentary in that perspective… it’s somewhat a public response to all the media nonsense on this topic.

I’m not a fan of this strategy, but as Michael Moore has shown.. “it works”, at least to some extent.

Jason Della Rocca drops the bomb (IMHO), shame it (kinda) looks like speaking up for/defending the trade on the latter.

we as a society are having a hard time scrutinizing ourself and admit where we( also, as a society)’re wrong. and we want ready made solutions (which will only exacerbate the situation) [6:17][11:10]

Brian Fleming [8:00] almost gets it. our (‘we’ as a society) culture, _based_ on supressing our inner selves in order to serve a purpose and get great marks (in any sense… illusion love, awesomeness, fame, money, acknowledgement, influence, power etc.) can’t result in anything else but us making others supress their own inner selves, or destroying them. we murder ourselves for others, so we want others to murder themselves – or we do it.
we murder love – we love murder!

making a documantary on yourself could (should?) look forced, could look like milking it(… a dead horse). but it should not be enough to dismiss it without even looking at it. (ok, you just can’t take the dramatic shi(f)t at 7:24 seriously. Touch the screen! Touch the screen!=D)

it was a great post (even if I don’t personally know most of the people in it).

I’m tired of being grouped in with “society” and blamed for its supposed shortcomings. There is no “society.” There are only individuals. Don’t blame me for what these two did.

I don’t know why they killed those people. Neither does Danny Ledonne and neither do you.

I do know it wasn’t self defense and, therefore, they had no right to do it. It was a fundamentally selfish act. To accomplish their own ends, they took what wasn’t theirs. They denied others the control over self, over life and death, that they claimed for themselves.

Sad as it is, there is nothing new here. People have been doing this since Cain killed Abel. And every government on the planet exists to normalize and legitimize this process, by which one person gets what he wants at the expense of another.

You aren’t going to fix “society,” which doesn’t exist anyway. Work on fixing yourself instead and let the rest of the world be, lest you become a part of the problem.

“Society” is an abstract concept. Of course it doesn’t exist. It’s a useful shorthand to describe certain types of collective behavior. So please leave that poor strawman alone.

And no, there are NOT “only individuals.” What kind of fucking idiot do you have to be to not acknowledge something as obvious as the fact that you exist in constant and mutual interaction with other humans? Jesus.

@midnight gamer: I don’t think hes (im?)famous for being a game maker. Somehow I doubt that if he makes another game, every1 is gonna rush out to buy it.

@Old Peakot: you are deluded if you believe there is no society, only individuals. Do you honestly believe that your beliefs and morals were not affected by the society you grew up in?

He got all this attention because he made a game about such a controversial issue and put you in the shoes of the perpetrators. And for those who havent played it, it’s not a good game by any means, but it is interesting how you really do feel like you are playing the role of the “trenchcoat mafia”. Which is way more than most rpg’s manage. Its an interesting game before the fighting part starts. Then its just tedious. And I find myself so focused on the fights that I forget its anout real life again, and I could be playing any lame rpg maker game.

As far as the documentary goes, well it’s clearly not impartial. But are any docs about social controversy? I mean The Corporation was awesome, but it was not impartial by any stretch. The problem is that humans make movies, and humans have agendas. This one is no different. I have no problem with documentaries having opinions as long as they don’t twist facts.

It’s not as terrible as people are making it out to be, but it’s not great either. It could use a few more expert opinions. Maybe some sociologists or something. All the people interviewed are either developers or random kids like that dumb girl. I guess my problem with it is there is no new information. People have pretty much decided for themselves whether or not violent video games = violent people, and nothing I saw would change anybodies minds about that decision. Im rambling now so Im gonna stop.

*know exactly when i am watching a movie and when i am playing.. so i don ‘t think this matter belongs to videogames, at least not the one i want and play.*

Off course you know, obvious enough a game without interaction is probably a movie instead… On the level of influence they really are similar despite you being able to distinguish both forms of media.

When you read a book you obviously do not hear it as if it were a CD, but if someone would tell you the same story by mouth it would still be exactly the same story. If the narrator does a good job the intensity of both what you hear and what you’ve read (and imagine whilst reading) will be the same and so will be it’s influence.

If you add more to it, like for example background music for the narrator or sound effects, yeah, no doubt it will increase the intensity even more. But the real ‘shock-value’ of anything lies in the actual ideas portrait in the stories. Those are the thing that do the real influencing. Whether you actually use the interactivity in games to experience a story or not is totally irrelevant to it’s ultimate influence it will have on you. Again, intensity may vary, but that’s it. It’s superfluous to say, but intensity in extreme forms will give you an adrenaline rush like in a roller coaster, but it won’t make you a killer.

@Phemox: If u meant to say that the tragedy occured in america is more shocking in a videogame than in other media beacouse u play the role of the killers i disagree..

Maybe i just expressed bad, i am not english, what i wanted to say is i found the game disgusting in general (of course) from the starting idea, but lovin democracy i agree people can do sh.it but on the other hand me and (many) others have the right to say (and loud) Take your sh.it back we don ‘t play it!

Please don ‘t talk about influence, ffs we are not at the presence of Leonardo’s Gioconda(Monnalisa) or the vitruvian man (L’uomo vitruviano)..
To be or not to be, that is the question.. in this case it’s just a shi.tty game made with rpgmaker.. lol

Cya.

I cant believe how many stupid comments I just read through.

This looks like a good doc that tries to deal with a tough subject while talking to people affected directly by it and people in an industry regularly blamed for it.

I notice a lot of people here making the mistake of thinking that SCMRPG should be judged on its entertainment value which is fundamentally the wrong way to look at it.

well said grindfish.

It seems to me that it’s usually the more traditional media that instinctively blame videogames, mainly because a child infront of a console is a child not watching that networks advertising stream.