lose/lose

By: Derek Yu

On: September 23rd, 2009

“”http://www.stfj.net/art/2009/loselose/“>Lose/Lose is a video-game with real life consequences. Each alien in the game is created based on a random file on the player’s computer. ”color: #F26522">*If the player kills the alien, the file it is based on is deleted.* If the player’s ship is destroyed, the application itself is deleted."

Created by Zach Gage. Nope, I haven’t tried it! (By the way, this is not one of the “great playable games” I mentioned in the last post.)

(Source: f00m@nB@r, via Sensible Erection [NSFW?])

Posted in Macintosh, Shoot-em-ups, Unique / Bizarre, Videos | Tags: ZachGage

Ateam

LOSE/LOSE: REAL LIFE CONSEQUENCES!
A LOSE/LOSE FAN FIC BY ATEAM

SPACE CAPTAIN WAS RAISED TO KILL ALIENS EVERY SPACE NIGHT HE WOULD TRAIN IN SEMILULATORS TO LEARN TO KILL ALEINS

SPACE CAPTAIN TRAINED EIGHTEEN YARES TO KJILL ALIENS HE WAS PMUPED UP TO KILL ALIENS BECAUSE SAPACE CAPTAIN WAS TRAINED FROM BIRTH TO KILL THE ALIENS

SPACE CAPTAIN GOT ON DOCK AND PUT ON HIS SPACE ARMOR AND SPACE WEAPONS AND WAS ABOUT TO GET IN SAPCE SHNIP WHEN OLD MAN APPRAOCYHED HIM!!!

OLD MAN: DO NOT KILL THE ALIENS IF YOU KILL THE ALIENS YOU MAKE UNIVERSE EMPTY PLACE BUT DO NOT DIE IF YOU KILL ALIENS OR YOU WILL BE DELETED FROM EXISTANCE

SPACE CAPTAIN: WTDF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT OLD MAN I WILL IGNORE YOU AND DO WHAT I TRAIONED TO DO…

SPACE CAPTAIN GOT INTO HS SPACE SHIP AND STARTED FLUC CAPACATORS AND GATLING LAZOES STARTED SPINNING AND SHIP GOT OFF INTO THE SPACE

SAPCE CAPTAIN SHOT DOWN ALIENS IN HIS SPACE SHIP, HE SHOT DOWN WAVE OF ALIENS THEN REAMED HIS LAZORS AT THE OTHER WAVE LITTLE DID HE KNOW HIS ACTIONS HAD REAL LIFE CONSEQUENCES

AN ALIEN BIG SHIP CAME AND LITTLE SHIPS CAME AND FIRED AT SPACE CAPTAIN SPACE SHIP AND HE DIED

AS HE DIED HE SAW OLD MAN BUT HE WAS YOUNG THIS TIME AND HE LOOKED LIKE JESUS, OLD MAN TOLD HIM UNIVERSE IS DISAPPEARING AND EVERYONE IS FACING REAL LIFE CONSEQUENCES FROM HIS ACTIONS

THEN SPACE CAPTAIN WENT TO HELL, THEN HELL GOT DELETED TOO ALONG WITH SAPCE CAPTAIN
iv

Pretentious bollocks.
raigan

This does seem a bit retarded as a game.. as many have pointed out, just inverting the rules so that every alien you DON’T kill will “get through your defenses and delete a file” would at least provide some reason to play the game (i.e intense challenge with real consequences on the line).
ngajoe

@Ateam: Now *that*–THAT is art. I laughed, I cried! Bravo!
Johan

“My decision not to play it seemed like the game already â€˜wonâ€™, or at very least proved a point in a pretty succinct manner.”

How do you figure? Like you noted yourself, the author has made it clear that his goal was to challenge the fact that if a character holds a weapon in a game, we instinctively use it to kill NPCs. He’s trying to say “your guy has a weapon, now go ahead and be a pacifist and DON’T use it!” which is why it deletes files if you do.

But that makes the posed question inherently dishonest. We’re not given a moral choice here; instead we have a gun to our heads. “Be nice to the aliens or I’ll destroy your computer!”

I don’t think his point was for us to NOT play the game, because that does not put us in the context he has created. If we’re not playing it at all, we’re not holding a weapon and making the conscious choice NOT to use it. We’re not holding a weapon at all. We’re not even in that universe at that point, even figuratively.

Withholding from killing aliens in my bedroom while NOT playing this game is very easy; there aren’t any there!
garbaggio

easy money says anyone praising this inane bullshit looks like they crawled out of latfh.
nihilocrat

Run this game on a virtual machine

Or,

Try running it in WINE within a chroot jail.

Problem solved.

@effort failed : I think you’re trying too hard. Or maybe you’re just a troll, just like the game is! dohohoho!
http://news.bigdownload.com James Murff

Just run the game on a Virtual Machine. No danger.

VMware is the best. I have it thanks to some banking software work I do, and I just copy-pasted a new machine and played it. No problems whatsoever. You can even run multiple OSes if that’s your thing (I have XP as my main)
MrLollige

Man, I never realized how important those files on my computer are for me :/
Malasdair

This is very clearly coming from a “fine arts” background (though I call bullshit on the appropriation of the term) rather than a games background; the fact that everybody is mad about it is actually a really strong indication that it’s a success. Like everybody else has said, the point isn’t playing it, but being reluctant to play it – who wants to face real-world consequences from a video game? We play video games so we don’t HAVE to actually go to war or hunt for ancient treasure or wake up in a cave on a floating island somewhere, and I think our reluctance to give this game a shot is really great evidence of that.
P.M.

Very similar to another shmup, Directory Blaster where you select a folder, shoot the files contained therein because they become enemies for the game, and simultaneously delete them.
http://www.brothersoft.com/games/directory-blaster.html
snapman

This is a virus, then.
http://dfgame.wordpress.com Jason Bakker

“I donâ€™t think his point was for us to NOT play the game, because that does not put us in the context he has created.”

Erm, yes it does!

In fact, as soon as you read the name of the game you were already ensnared in his insidious context!

Good show :D
FNugget

This reminds me of a custom map for Starcraft. Everyone starts with 1 Infested Terran, all in a tiny room.

i.e. A game where everyone has 1 suicidal bomber.
Snow

Interesting concept, but dunno if I’d risk it. I have too much precious work on my systems.

I’ve always dreamed of a concept like this, except in reverse, where you are afraid to touch an enemy as every time it happens it would have real-life consequences. Nothing happens if you kill THEM.

I do have one system with useless crap on it – found in an alley way.. would be fun to see how long you could play the game on it before the system could no longer function and would need a reformat/reinstall of Windows.

This could also be one of those games that you’d install on a computer that you wanted revenge against. For instance if you were forced to work with some horrid piece of crap at work and you decided it was payback. Or put it on the boss’s computer (if you plan on immediately quitting) and trick him or her into playing the game.

Very interesting to make a game this way. Fun but very nasty. I like it. :D
Snow

Ok, I also misunderstood a bit. As the creator implies – what compels you to fire? If you hit an alien, the game simply destroys itself. You could play the game for as long as you want, just dodging aliens.

In real life, if you ran down a street with a gun and shot people, there would be consequences from the first person you kill or injure. There’s also consequences if you get caught just simply running with a gun – more minor, you won’t be able to do it again right away (you might have a small stint in jail) and you’ll have your gun taken away from you.

This game is art. Bravo. I think this game finally has broken that threshhold between games and art. This isn’t fine art – like pretty pixel graphics. This game is an expression.
http://www.godatplay.com God at play

Reading through the comments, I thought this was a poignant, though unintentional, response:

“I do not think my boss or any of my professors would sympathize if I lost a paper or some work I was suppose to submit to a video game.” – Allen

To a certain degree, I bet you already have Allen…I know I have.
Soulliard

This is irresponsible. Even though there are written warnings, some people might not read them or misinterpret them (maybe their English isn’t very good). And then end up unintentionally destroying their hard drive.
nitram_cero

I remember a day when games used to be played for fun…

I mean, wouldn’t it have more sense if you were to SAVE your files?
I could understand the russian rulette-like rush on that.

Like, if an alien reaches past you (you didn’t kill it), then the file goes to waste.

The way it’s now it’s like if you were playing russian rulette with 5 bullets just to DIE.
whaaa

Man, this is great, someone should make a plataform game for windows that wen you die a file gets deleted. (you would had to confirm like 7 times that you understand what the game its gonna do with your computer)
Dr Invisibrow

It’s better to play a game where you can choose which files (“enemies”) to blast/delete, right?

Directory Blaster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhwNnLK6SeQ
handCraftedRadio

This idea would be awesome if it was like an anti virus or anti spyware program. Instead of just automatically removing these things it generates an enemy based on it. The higher the rating of the virus, the harder the enemy.
Gutter

@ Jared : “I just say â€œawesome conceptâ€ because it expresses creativity in a way weâ€™ve yet to see (at least on my part).”

See, thats the thing… You aren’t necessarily creative just because you do something that was never done.

Deleting files is old hat. No one use it in a game because it’s daft, not because they lack creativity.

Doing it makes you daft, not creative…
fucrate

The main thing to realize here is that the game is not the work, the game is ancillary. 99.9% of people will never play the game, so none of the choices and consequences presented in the game will actually be experienced by people.
The work that everyone is talking about and considering is the blurb, or the “artist statement” which describes the horrible consequences of experiencing the work. It’s just like saying “Looking at my painting has a 1% chance of causing cancer in your eyes.” The painting becomes meaningless because nobody would look at it. This is why the game is crap, and I’m sure that makes it less likely for anybody to play it. There could very easily not even be a game, very few people would even know.
The work is still somewhat interesting, it is causing violent reactions in people even though nobody has actually played the game, I just don’t think it really adds much to the art game scene. If this game were displayed in a show it would totally miss the point.
fucrate

My point, I guess, is that everyone who complains that the game is stupid or brilliant are getting played. It’s way too meta for that kind of shit.
Bleagle

I love how the post counts goes high up when such games appear (damn now I support this, too). And I bet only a tenth of you have actually played the game (I didnt), or less.
This reminds me of an old virus that if it was installed to your pc, asked you to play a round of poker. You didnt play for money, though. If you lost the game your entire hard drive would be formatted.
Now thats a fair virus!
If you quit the game, you loose. And I think the AI was pretty good. Those kind of games remind people just how much they need their pc/files…
Sir Robin

So, I took an old hard drive I had laying around and threw it in, over 80 gigs of crap I don’t really care about. Time to blast the shit outta it!
Gutter

@fucrate : People are having this reaction because they are attached to their files, not because the game is art or a social comment.

Your painting analogy is flawed… It’s more like if there was a sign on the painting that said “Watching this painting WILL give you cancer”, and only the old and sick would ever want to watch it. It’s not art, it’s (digital) suicide.
Marcus

I think it’s a fucking awesome concept, but the name “lose/lose” and the author’s commentary lessens its value in my eyes. It’s just a bit too obvious! Let us think for ourselves a little bit,
DalaranJ

The comments for this post wouldn’t load so I immediately thought,

“The comments won’t load. OH NO, Derek Yu is playing the internet version of this right now! We’ve got to stop him!”
Ateam

win/win – a lose/lose fanfic by ateam

space captain was now stuck in the darkness of oblivion, oblivion was dark and scary and if he wasn’t careful he’d be eaten by the grue

he heard loud moaning and screaming like someone was dying! he looked around and saw all the ghosts of the files he deleted!

ghosts: why did you delete uuuuuuussssssss? why didn’t you listen to the oooooooooold maaaaaaaaaan

space captain: sapce high command said i had to kill the aliens the old man looked like a hobo and smalled like chives

space captain then shot the ghosts in the brains and ran away until he hit a wall he looked up at the wall and saw a button that said “press button to regain universe or don’t press and get free money” space captain knew this was win/win he pressed the buton and erased his REAL LIFE CONSEQUANCES but there was a catch he was no longer in game world he was in real world infront of a desk programming a game called lose/lose

so he spun the his chair around and punched himself in the face and said “stop don’t program that game you will destroy the universe!” and he said to himself “i am fully aware of what i’m doing! by programming this game i will punish gamers for virtual murder of people my myself and destroying many virtual families after i press this button i will upload compile this file and send it to the internet” space captain wrestled with himself as he tried to delete the file he created to he can’t compile it and make an video game he slammed his head against the desk but oh no he hit the compile button!

haahahaahahaha! said space captain “now the cycle will begin anew my work is done” and he shot himseld in head with lazor pistol

but he did not realise in wrestling he accidentally made the code mac only but it was a hollow victory.

space captain got into his space ship and flew away into the sunset this was no win/win like he thought it was lose/lose.

them he accidentally flew into the sun and died

the end
Snow

Wow, it’s amazing how most of you can’t look beyond the surface of the game and really think about the concept. :(

Of course most aren’t going to play it. It’s digital “russian roulette” if you touch that trigger. It’s the concept of a shooter game completely twisted around and made a lot more real. A lot of you have called the game crap or viral. Why? YOU are the one who destroys your files ONLY IF YOU SHOOT!

So again why? Answer: Because this game scares the hell out of you. Even if you never shoot an alien, just running it would probably make you crap your pants. This game threatens your personal space. Your HD is part of your personal space as it contains not only files prized by you, but also the operating system data. Besides malicious programs such as virii and malware, you are the only one who can destroy what you value. YOU are your own biggest threat. In the sense of danger and destruction this game is no more dangerous than not having it. It’s pretty easy to go into any folder and randomly delete files. Why would you do that? Dunno. Maybe you went crazy? So if you run this game… why would you shoot? You can play this game harmlessly and just dodge aliens. It can still be fun, but losing is still harsh in that you have to reinstall the game, every time you die.

This game IS art. It’s definitely an interesting look at human behavior, when it comes to those that choose to take the risk of shooting.
Paul Eres

this game would be more playable (or at least more people would play it) if it didn’t delete files that are system-critical, and only deleted media files. for example, mp3’s, jpg’s, avi’s, and other such files.
AmnEn

This game tries to be a message, but the message is common knowledge. It tries to be art but is too meta for that. It tries to be meta but lacks the necessary amounts of pretentious attitude (although it does get close). It tries to be smart but uses childish malware behavior.

The game is either a complete failure or a statement to the likes of a certain austrian “artist” throwing dead cows out of a helicopter while hanging naked on a rope, bleeding from self inflicted wounds – and calling it art.
http://mile222.com aeiowu

I think it’s an incredibly intriguing concept, but I agree with Raigan. Many more people would be able to [or at least be tempted to] play the game if they were defending their files.

That said, I understand the whole hopeless-war analogy and the set of rules Raigan mentioned might muddy that. Yet, I’m not sure space aliens did anything to further that concept other than pervert classic gaming. Which is fair.

Good stuff.
Pierre B.

snow: it’s because most of us realize that if it really does erase files:

1. Someone is bound not to believe it and lose files.
2. Some anti-social grumpy co-worker or stranger is bound to use this as a trap. The text can be easily edited.

It’s a time bomb. I sure hope Mr. Gage was kidding or has good lawyers.
Danman

@effort failed – “Everyone thinks theyâ€™re fucking Nietzsche because they know how to use GameMaker.” – Hell yeah! I’ve been majorly undewhelmed by the recent bandwagon of meta-games. I get the strong impression that they’re attractive to certain sorts of developers because it’s a hell of a lot easier to make a game that “challenges our assumptions” blah de blahdeblah than one that is actually, you know *fun*.
falsion

this isn’t made in game maker. hell, this isn’t even for windows.

but I still think whatever the author was trying to say pretty much fails due to the fact that nobody will even play it since its a malicious file
godsavant

This is a game that defies being played. The people labeling this as malware are partially correct; the game makes no attempt to hide its malicious intent, yet defies the player to self-destruct their computer regardless simply because there’s a schmup that goes along with it. It is a metaphor for addicted to any form of substance/entertainment who continue to abuse their habits with full knowledge that they are wasting and ruining their lives – something I’m sure at least some of us can relate to (my history paper is due in an hour and a half, yet I’m still browsing TIGS). Gage then points out the hypocrisy of these people who ridicule his game for deleting computer files, yet continue to turn a blind eye to aspects of their own lives that are hurting them in much more profound ways.
headcrab

File deletion? Fuck that pussy shit, just clamp some jumper cables to your balls during a road trip to Vegas.
VPellen

It’s different, I’ll give it that.

The problem is that there’s no reason to play at all. It’s like Hit Your Dick With A Hammer: The Game. Sure, you’ll probably get masochists or lunatics doing it, but everybody else is going to wonder what the damned point is.

It’d make for an interesting bittorrent client, though. Kill enemies, get data. Die, lose data. Can you beat the game and get the file?
Soulliard

@Pierre B:
Those are precisely my fears. Even though most people posting comments here realize that the game is serious, someone out there could easily interpret the warning screen as just being ironic. Or they could accidentally tap a button the second the game starts, before even realizing the warning screen is there. Or someone who doesn’t speak English could play and ignore the warning screen, thinking it’s just meaningless back story.

If someone directly links to the game’s zip file on a major forum, without mentioning how the game works, a number of people could unintentionally end up ruining their computers.

The game is malware. Its creation is irresponsible at best, and unethical at worst.
Malasdair

“Itâ€™d make for an interesting bittorrent client, though. Kill enemies, get data. Die, lose data. Can you beat the game and get the file?”

Oh my god it’s like an RPG that ACTUALLY MATTERS
Snow

@Pierre. How many people have been hurt or killed with poison that was maliciously mislabelled as something else… or given food with poison in it?

I understand the point and concern.

Whatever you file you put or program you install on your computer is always at your own risk. I mean, I would never ever have music from Kanye West on my computer as it would probably implode and rip a hole in the fabric of space.

As for the game being maliciously used, yeah that can happen. But, if you want revenge against someone else, there are 1001 different ways to corrupt their computer. Or you attack some other belonging like a car. I could tell you how to sieze someones engine within a mile with a common item… I won’t though as I would feel responsible if someone later on did that based on my post here.

So yes, this could definitely be used as a malicious tool. It’s only those who use it for destructive reasons are responsible. Not the creator. And speaking of unethical, if this was a game say that was aimed at little kids, but had mature graphics, language, racism, etc in it, that would be an example of unethical. The game by itself is not.

If you install this game on your computer, play it and SHOOT the aliens… I reiterate, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE, if you are dumb enough to do that. If you use it as a tool of malicious intent… stupid choice for a tool as there are more efficient ways of destroying data on someone elses compy, but also, YOU ARE A TRUE LOSER.

Anyway, I’ve said enough. I do respect your arguments and the concerns are valid. But, you can’t let fear of it cloud your judgement (my opinion) as to whether or not it should be recognized as art.
rz.

you guys are stupid.
it’s clearly not a game, or even meant to be played.
it’s just a message.

but substantial? not really.
geist

I sent an email to a security site asking about this game just out of curiosity and it turns out that they’re already aware of it and various AV vendors have already classified it as MacOSX malware and are working to update their detection methods to detect this game and make sure it doesn’t fall into the wrong hands (i.e. people who send the file stripped of any of the original warnings, etc.).
http://www.g4g.it Firesword

If you turn off the Computer, the Universe will disappear…

So now that you have read this message, whatever it happens DO NOT power off your Computer or the Universe will disappear!

p.s On the game.. Real life consequence? Pfff as many said virtual machine, and no consequence .. sorry Zach.

This message will self-destruct the 21st December 2012.
Dinsdale

Best thing about lose/lose is this thread.
Sergio

The guy who made Pasta Master already made a game with roughly this concept, done slightly better I would say.

Taken from his site:

The Windows Satan Game
This is a clone of missile command with a twist. When a city gets hit instead of losing a life the program would delete a random component from C:/windows eventually causing windows to cease to function.
TCM

Anyhow, I am taking art appreciation right now, and based on the responses I’m seeing, this definitely falls under the category of “made it for the shock value”.

You aren’t seriously intended to play or enjoy it, you’re intended to be offended by the very notion of playing it.