Hydorah – Demo Updated

By: Xander

On: January 17th, 2010

Recently updated to alter the speed, hitboxes and power ups within the game, which may or may not have something to do with me being able to finish the damn thing now, there’s almost no better time to talk about the Hydorah Demo .

At its core Hydorah is an 80’s style shoot ‘em up, right down to the punishing difficulty and arcade-style screen ratio. There are a number of major differences in terms of how much freedom you have to move around and the way that power-ups are fairly abundant and even partially retained after death, however it isn’t fully apparent from the demo which doesn’t demonstrate the branching level structure involved in the rest of the game which embraces the sentiment of struggling through and finally beating each one of the 18 main levels of the game.

Since there’s that many I hope that the variety manages to keep the pace, but with a customisable weapon load out and extra levels outside of the main experience this could be really something. Oh, it also looks freaking fantastic and the soundscape is incredibly well thought out, strongly evoking that nostalgic arcade atmosphere. If you know what the phrase ‘Shoot the core’ means, you should probably keep an eye out for this one.

Posted in Action, Shoot-em-ups, Windows

http://www.youtube.com/user/Davioware Davioware

Nice, I’m going to go try this out immediately.
poopdeck

Amazing, huge improvement over the first demo.
http://lumberingdream.com/ !CE-9

<3
Pachinko Sam

A preview of a good game posted by Xander? Haven’t seen that one in a while!
http://www.microwaving.net Alex

Maybe I’d hate this game less if it would stop yelling LOOK AT ME I’M A REALLY HARD GAME from the minute you load it
Widget

Oh come on. It’s not “look at me I’m a hard game” as much as “look at me I’m Gradius (or whatever other side-scrolling shooters you may’ve played in the ’80s)”.

I played the previous demo and yes, it was Gradius (the one I played back then… well, there was Lifeforce too but what’s the difference?); I thought it was gorgeous, fun and hard enough that I didn’t stand a kitten-in-hell’s chance of finishing the first level.

It’s not the game for me, but it’s a beautiful homage to the western shooters of the ’80s.
Twitch

This is insanely hard, but I keep playing because it’s so lovingly crafted. The graphics are beautiful, and the sound and music all fits perfectly; this game seems flawless!
Adamski

Awesome land tiles/graphics in general :)
Oryx

I would buy it if it had a continue from where you died option just so I could see all the content.
R-9

god, the unavoidable euroshmup style bullet patterns in this game annoy me. it’s especially bad when it doesn’t have a shield system like other euroshmups do to counter balance it.

and the player’s hitbox is so freaking huge too. even worse is how small the enemy bullets appear, and how fast they can travel.
R-9

even worse is the level design. it’s like they took a level from a platform game and dropped it into a shooter.

way too crowded, not enough open space. besides trying to dodge euroshmup bullets from hell, you have to make sure your ship doesn’t collide into any platforms (wtf?)

it makes sense to have them in a level where you, say, have to escape from an enemy base or something. provided that the level scrolls very slowly and there aren’t things shooting at you. but that’s the only time you should use levels with a lot of shit to avoid.
Neilsouth

R-9 Is spot on and it’s one reason i have no interest in the full game , it looked really good but i want a game to be fun not constantly annoying from the get go.
Grey Dias

Veteran shmup player here. Yeah, this game has somegameplay issues. Amazing production quality, but the gameplay could be improved.

As already mentioned, the players hitbox seems to be far too big. This is made worse by the fact that explosions obscure bullets (a very bad thing). Sometimes bullets can be very hard to see in this game, resulting in unavoidable bullet deaths.

Another annoying thing is that there is no limit to how many enemies spawn on the screen at a time.

All shmups make sure that there are only a certain amount of enemies on screen at a time, and only spawn more as you kill them. If you play Gradius, the first thing you’ll notice is that it spawns one wave of enemies, then another, and so on.

This game on the other hand, more and more enemies as the screen scrolls out, often having way too many enemies on screen at once. You’ll often find yourself in situations where death was unavoidable as a result of this.

Also, the enemy hitboxes are kinda random and sporatic. For some reason, shooting two enemies with 1 bullet doesn’t kill both enemies (as they would in any other shmup). Also sometimes I’d be hitting enemies, and it wouldn’t register because of dodgy hitboxes (this is most apparent with the missile weapon).
Grey Dias

Also yes, the level design needs to be waay more open. This isn’t a platform game.
shootan games

yeah, enemy hitboxes need to be way bigger. also having to fight so many enemies at the same time over such a large screen size (1024×728) is a huge pain. especially with the level design blocking your way.
shootan gaems

yeah, enemy hitboxes need to be a bit bigger. also having to fight so many enemies at the same time over such a large screen size (1024×728) is a huge pain. especially with the level design blocking your way.
Bellyache

Well I love it. Didn’t finish the demo (i suck at it/haven’t had the time to master it), but am already looking forward to the full game.
alastair jack

Very nice production values.

If only the mechanics could be like Japanese shoot ’em ups…
Necromian

Well I got through two bosses then died, but I have to say I’m thoroughly impressed. I think the first 30 seconds of the game are damn near impossible though.

I agree that there should be a function to continue the game at the point of game over, so that we can at least see all the content.
Dusty Spur

This game is really pretty!

It’s also really pretty poorly designed.
Dusty Spur

Or masterfully designed, maybe. I guess it depends if the developer’s goal was “make a fun game” or “make Gradius”.
alastair jack

“I agree that there should be a function to continue the game at the point of game over, so that we can at least see all the content.”

Hilarious!
undertech

Just wait for the playthrough videos.
poopdeck

@ Dusty Spur: Gradius is a fun game. It’s also fairer and better designed than Hydorah. But Hydorah is well on its way, just needs a few tweaks (slower, more visible bullets etc.)
Dodger

Damn this game looks good. The Gradius/Lifeforce (Salamander) look is obvious but I also see a lot of Forgotten Worlds, Legendary Wings, R-Type, and SideArms, among others which I’ve probably forgotten. It does look like good fun though! Can’t wait for the finished product!
anothergol

I think it’s perfect for what it tries to be, now even better with the key config. Sadly too hard for me, probably why I always preferred Xenon 2 & other easy shmups.

Once its trainer mode will be revealed I will certainly play it more.
alastair jack

Too hard? Go read watch a film.
undertech

Actually what amazes me isn’t the number of comments saying this is too hard, but rather the absence of the epenis swingers coming out saying that it is too easy.
They seem to be in full force whenever there is a discussion of difficult games in the past…why not here?????
Xander

@Grey Dias: See, that’s actually something I love about the game. Tactically it’s pretty impossible to clear out all the enemies, and I don’t remember a shoot ’em up I’ve played in the past where that was the case. It seems like there’s always going to be bullets in the sky you need to avoid, so it kind of introduces a new dynamic where you choose which targets to take out based on how much of a pain they’ll be to deal with when they’re behind you.
salade

this game is running into various bugs on both my computers. sound and aspect ratio on my laptop (aspect ratio is under standable) and an odd control glitch on my desktop (the down and right keys are always pressed.) other than that I like it.

And to hard? I don’t even play shmups and i know that compared to most this game isn’t THAT difficult. besides, i don’t think this is the first level.
Dodger

Not many Ikaruga fans here are there? ;-) Difficulty isn’t necessary for a game to be fun or better, but there were plenty of classic arcade shmups that ate quarters faster than Dick Cheney shoots Attorneys while quail hunting. O.o

It’ll be interesting to see the finished game and better yet to see if anyone can finish it without continuing.
undertech

I tried connecting a Xbox 360 controller and it messes up the controls pretty bad – acting as if up-left or down left was constantly pressed. I gather this has something to do with the way the thumbstick works, and I do find it rather annoying that the stick rather than the dpad is the default directional controls for just about every game out there.
Supposedly there’s a deadzone set up for the thumbsticks, but that doesn’t seem to do anything here.
salade

^^same thing is what happened to me, I’m wondering if I have some sort of virtual joystick running somewhere
undertech

You know what’s hilarious? The prior version of the demo works perfectly with the controller. Go figure???
http://www.locomalito.com Locomalito

Hi there!

Somebody write me about the XBOX controller problem you’re talking here (I suppose I can’t stay in everything), it will be fixed in a few days.

BTW, I have read all the comments here and I’m a little sad about all that “too hard” talking about… some people talk as if I were a thief who has taken their money apart for a crappy game (the money thing is not true, LOL).

Today companies are making ultraeasy games to sell them continuously to everyone, but there are a few marginal people who still like a challenge, and for this reason (and for fun of course) I’m making this game (hard and free).

Do you really think the difficulty is insane? something specific? I really want to hear, so lets talk seriously about it…

I believe that there is no problem with the ship killbox, is precise and without wings and salients counting (of course, it is not a single pixel like in danmakus).

Also I noticed that megaman 10 is coming with easy mode as a great feature (as many other new-gen games). Do you think this is right? not having things to improve ourselfs? What do you think of La Mulana?
lp

I think your game is great as it is! New patch does make things a little easier, but i except little bit harder difficulty on later levels ;) Keep up the good work!
Vincent

Go on Locomalito!

I think the gameplay is correct and player killbox exact as it could be. As a matter of difficulty, I think it is right. I hope there could be stages harder, but I expect easier stages too….

I hope you release the full version well-balanced and playable with fun!

We can’t wait until that moment!!

:-)
undertech

Locomalito! Don’t put too much credit on the messages here – here it is not quite as bad as flash game portals but the overall quality of discussion here isn’t really that high either. Take a look at the monster VVVVVV post for more inspiration.
More telling should be that people have commented at all – that should be taken as a sign of encouragement. (and since it is free, everyone commenting should have actually played it at least once)
—
The difficulty hit me hard at first since I was so used to the “easy” games that are the norm these days. (not only that, people are spoiled due to playing normally hard games on emulators, etc)
But after a few tries it has become possible – after all the enemy patterns are still the same.
The only real complaint is that powering up takes a lot of items, and when you do increase in power that isn’t really visible to the eye.
Dodger

@Locomalito,

Don’t be sad, Hydorah looks great and even looks like it will be fun aside from the steep difficulty.

I don’t think games have to necessarily be hard to make us better at games or improve our game play, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be hard games either. I’m really looking forward to Hydorah. Whatever your intentions I suggest you first create the game *you* want, then when it’s finished to your liking you can take outside feedback into consideration. If you start diverting from your initial idea too much it ends up being an idea by someone else and you’re no longer creating what you have envisioned. At the same time, be gracious with the feedback you receive but don’t take criticism too harshly, especially when you have an idea of where you want the game to evolve.

The demo can be hard or easy, but if a steep difficulty is what you had intended than stick to it. The thing to watch for is that it isn’t impossible to complete. If you make it so that the game can’t be finished, or cannot be finished without your audience ripping all of their hair out ;-), then people will resent it. If you’re going to keep it difficult that difficulty must be balanced. However, this only applies to a game that you want people to play and enjoy and perhaps be challenged by. If instead this is an experiment to see how difficult you can possibly make a game (in this case a game from the shmup genre) then all those other rules don’t apply.

I’m sure all of the info is already on your site but, let us know what you wanted from the game and if you’d like feedback based on that it’ll make the discussion much more constructive for you to take away the criticism you might want to hear and of course some criticism you probably didn’t want to hear. :)
salade

Just booted up gradius 3, and for chrissake, hydorah isn’t that hard.

update on the control glitch: the problem definitely lies in the game’s joystick support (or lack there of). ends up I had a long forgotten joystick emulator running. after I disabled it i had no issues on my desktop.
undertech

Not me. I am using Windows 7 with the MS Xbox 360 controller driver without any other helper programs. I’ve since tried Xpadder but that didn’t help since I can’t “disable” the thumbstick.
Dodger

@salade,

I agree about the difficulty, it’s not as hard as everyone else makes it out to be the problem is that is only my opinion. Others either haven’t played as many different kinds of shmups or if they have they’ve just forgotten how difficult the shmups of their past were, or perhaps it’s just that everyone is a little bit older and the old reflexes and hand/eye coordination isn’t what it used to be ;-)

It’s all about patterns (bullet patterns), enemy flight patterns, and obstacles. That doesn’t mean that a game like this has to necessarily play out the exact same way each time, but the characteristics of each obstacle, enemy, or bullet, should have a pattern that should telegraph a bit giving players a couple of windows of opportunity.

I don’t really find the Hydorah (the demo) any more difficult than Charlies “Irukandji” – which is easy if all you’re attempting to do is finish the level (it’s a one level shooter), but if you attempt to finish the game the way it was meant to be completed (take no hits and finish the level perfectly – it’s the only real way to finish the game with all the different ships) you’ll find the difficulty just as punishing, if not more so, than Hydorah.
Dodger

Oh, and I forgot to mention, even with the harder difficulty it’s still fun. :)
Nick

The production values here are top-notch. Beautiful graphics, sounds and music. All perfectly coherent with each other.

I agree, it’s a difficult game, but this is exactly how these games used to be. The levels aren’t too crowded if you are skilful enough, and this isn’t the first level anyway.

Seems a lot of gamers have become soft with modern games that give you unlimited continues and save points, allowing you to see the majority of content without actually being any good at the game. You have to work at this one.
cdoty

This looks pretty impressive. It borrows a lot from the classic side scrolling shooters.
judgespear

So, you’re given pretty sound advice and criticism and your only response is “you’re a bunch of pussies”?

No, they’re right. Gradius wasn’t like this. It actually had good level design and wasn’t a clusterfuck of problems that can easily be fixed. I don’t know what yesteryear you’re referring to, but it wasn’t plagued by the bad design decisions that infest this game.
judgespear

This game will seriously have euroshmup written all over it for anyone who is serious about shoot em up games. Anyone else, you can probably deceive into thinking its a tribute to the games of yesteryear. If that’s what you’re going for, keep at it.
Dodger

That’s kinda like saying Forgotten Worlds (Lost Worlds) was a euroshmup, or Einhander for that matter. I’m only making an indirect comparison though since the look isn’t the same (but some of the sprites are very similar to forgotten worlds – not just Gradius). If anything it looks more to me like a merging of both Japanese and Euro shooter.

The trailer does a good job of showing the great style Hydorah has already achieved. Nothing in the demo’s level design has broken the game for me and only judging by other peoples comments would I say that there are perhaps slight flaws in the interface. Aside from that I think it looks pretty darn good and can’t wait to play the finished product. Perhaps by then my I can adjust my verdict but for now so far, so good.
undertech

judgespear, I’m not a self professed shmup expert and have no idea what euroshmup is supposed to mean. Clearly you do, so maybe actually list the problems you mention and propose your solution for them?
I have no comments on the “retro” angle of this game other than that it vaguely reminds me of some of them. As far as enjoying it, I do so on its own merits. No self deception going on here.
http://www.locomalito.com Locomalito

Hi again

Thank you all for posting, I’m taking a lot of notes to consider here :-)
but still have some doubts, so I will first explain what the game is supposed to be and then ask:

I wanted to make a classic cut game with an arcade action level and something more like in msx gradius 3/salamander, wich has some secrets and things to do in order to achieve a good ending and extras (somethings not usual in shmups, you know… konami is kickass). The game is long, like 2 regular arcades (1 hour), but it has no death moments, so I maked some kind of final battle/ending in the middle of the map, and a consumable save feature that lets you make the game in two or three plays and practice in advanced levels.

The threat is supposed to be fought with tactics developed by the player, hidding behind obstacles, discovering the appropiate equipment and route, thinking when to save, when not to shoot, blablabla… an of course, aiming and dodging.
After each boss you will recieve a new weapon that can be equipped in the weapon menu before a new level, and upgraded by collecting 5 orbs. there are extra lives in levels and more can be collected with the score.
Each sublevel are suposed to be beaten from the beginning, but sublevels are only 1:00 and 1:20 long each.
And, ummmm… I think it’s all.

Many things can’t be seen in the demo, but I wanted to release it to have some feedback, cause level 2 is a good thermometer to have in mind. I don’t have a room full of testers or anything so I must make it this way, launch and heard, but something are not so clear after that.