Game Tunnel Monthly Roundup 3.8

By: Lorne Whiting

On: August 1st, 2007

Derek Yu and Greg Costikyan go around kicking people in the crotch in this issue of Game Tunnel’s indie review panel thing… actually, they don’t, sadly. But Derek does use creative metaphors to insult (arguably) bad games!

And Immortal Defense grabs the metaphorical cake by the nards this issue, scoring 1.3 higher than any other game in the round up. This makes me happy, because, you know, I have an unexplainable dedication to ID (I believe the random obsession before that was roast beef sandwiches with Havarti and horse radish sauce?).

Certainly, though, similar insanity as in previous GT roundups. Score of 2, 4, and 8? The hell? Although there is method to this madness, you will note that those are the first three powers of 2, not counting 0.

Also: I give this month’s panel a 3.8 MuscleStrongers.

EDIT: Derek’s notes in the extended.

“For grading, I used the scale that Russ provided at the bottom of the page, but in order for it to make sense I had to decide what ‘Average’ was. In the end, I felt Urban Legend was a good ‘Average’ game. Nice, clean presentation, and no glaring flaws, but doesn’t touch any of my gooey spots.

Immortal Defense: Good to see that everyone liked this game. It really is quite good. I was surprised by how interesting the story was.

Would still like to see more refinement in the pixel portraits. The designs are great, but the execution is rough and it does stand out against the other elements of the game.

Urban Legend: I think it’s really easy to get seduced by the pretty pixel graphics in this one, but the actual gameplay is pretty frustrating. Nothing is designed to make you want to do the things you’re supposed to do, like use cover. It seems like if you make a polished-looking game, it’s worth at least an 8 in the indie gaming scene? What is that telling us?

Professor Fizzwizzle: Seems like everyone’s in agreement about this one, too. The ‘Fizz’ games are really well made and fun.

Rock Legend: I didn’t mention this in my review, but I named my band ‘The Pedophiles’ because my character totally looked like one.

This game is kind of addicting. I’m really ashamed to say that, because it’s terrible for a lot of reasons.

Pathstorm: This game totally ripped off Fizzwizzle’s map screen, down to the little dots!

Membrane Massacre: After seeing Greg and John’s scores I really thought I completely missed something. But their reviews reveal that we were playing the same game. What gives? This game is really repetitive and kinda buggy.

Alice Greenfingers: Greg destroyed this game, which I thought was amusing. It’s really a lot better than Membrane Massacre, though. Re: John’s comment, why would you want to take the adventuring out of Harvest Moon? Maybe I really just don’t get casual games…

Meanwhile: I think everyone pretty much agreed that the concept was good but the game was bad.

Turret Wars: Worst game I’ve played in a long time.

Lunar Domination: I think Cas gave this a better score than he wanted because he thought he was missing something (just like Greg did for Meanwhile). Nope, this game really is boring, even to people who like numbers. -Derek"

Posted in Casual, Community | Tags: GameTunnel

Koach

Close that tag, will ya? ;)
Tim

Hey Lorne, thought you might like to know that your < .b.> tag isn’t closed, and it’s affecting the rest of the site. :)
Koach

Damn, now I opened up one myself.
Xander

Oooh, those are some bold comments!

…and so are these. Wordplay FTW!
Lorne T Whiting

I think that was awesome. TOO awesome.
Derek

Added some of my footnotes to the extended. :)

I had a good time on the panel. Some of those games I never would have played in a million years.

I’m also happy to say this panel did not contain any affiliate links. Yay!
Tim

In the end, I felt Urban Chaos was a good â€œAverageâ€ game.

Hmm… wasn’t that published by Eidos?
Derek

Oops, I meant Urban Legend!
Lorne T Whiting

God, will there ever be a time you don’t come a long and, and, like, seduce my articles, lure them into a dark alley, and then give them candy and puppies and candy puppies?

Everything I write is vastly improved by you, Derek D:!
http://www.moonpod.com/ Fost

That’s it Derek!! you are off my Xmas list for using the word ‘addicting’.

TIGS has really sunk to a new low with that!!!!
David

“roast beef sandwiches with Havarti and horse radish”

WANT!
Derek

@Fost: hehe, the English language is mine to butcher! Mwa ha ha ha…

:'(
rinkuhero

Cliffski noted on indiegamer.com that Alice Greenfingers is by far the best-selling game on that list, as Greg predicted.

I agree about the pixel portraits and some of the other graphics (enemy graphics, etc.), we still intend to improve those in later updates.

I actually liked Membrane Massacre a bit — it’s not the best shooter game by any means, but I don’t think it was intended to be, it’s more like an interesting free experimental game project, the kind of thing that’s flawed but great as a first or second attempt at a game. It wasn’t weak through negligence (as many of the other games seemed to be), but rather weak through inexperience. I replied to the guy in the indygamer.blogspot.com forum a bit, and he that was my impression, that he has potential but just needs another half-dozen games under his belt.
Tim

It’s not addicting, it’s ‘addictorising’.
Derek

I saw Cliffski’s post and his tone seems to imply that AG’s sales somehow vindicated its reviews. It makes me wonder… does everything have to begin and end with the dollar on the Indiegamer forums?

I may give MM a point more now, but that’s about it. It did feel like you described (weak through inexperience). I just didn’t want to count inexperience as a bonus in terms of scoring. As a first programming effort, though, it’s really impressive.

And congrats on ID. ‘Tis a splendid game, indeed. :)
Cas

Addictifying surely?

I did feel like a gave Lunar Domination a higher score that it deserved but I ran it through my Score-O-Meter again and it came up the same.
rinkuhero

Thanks!

And yeah, I got that out of the tone too, though in Cliffski’s defense he does make the kind of games he likes (weird strategy games) instead of the games he thinks would sell. I would probably have given Kudos: Rock Legend a better score than you did too, although I don’t think it’s as good as the first Kudos. But I agree about the scary Poser models.
Xander

I love the ID, and for what it’s worth although I -did- get it in the free giveaway thing, I’ll probably be purchasing a copy anyway just for the sake of it. I have a guilty conscience now thanks to that, even if it was officially backed. My brother seems to love Tower Defense games anyway, so I’ll buy a copy for him to play. Really a great game, I love the way that you never really think about time whilst your in that rift. All of a sudden in the real world 4 years have passed and you suddenly realise just how much of your life you’ve given away solely to fight this insane conflict.

Wish I could complete the damn thing though, I suck!
http://ptoing.net ptoing

Oh man, Membrane Massacre is so shit. What with the relative controls? Oh yeh, lets make the controls really shit so the player has some challenge, or what?

I prolly would have rated it even lower than Derek >:0
rinkuhero

Thanks Xander. If you need any hints on getting further in the game, the site’s forums has strategies for particular parts other people got stuck on, or you can set the difficulty lower, or go back to earlier levels to earn more cache, etc. etc.
MedO

Hmm, sorry, just curious…
MedO

…what will happen
MedO

Ok, the comment software is more robust than Koach’s comment made me believe (open tags are auto-closed).

To my real comment: I think I’ll have to check out Immortal Defense after my exams are over. Somehow I can’t imagine how a game with Tower Defense mechanics can be so good it deserves all this praise, but that makes me all the more curious now. Thanks for the reviews!
Cas

WRT Indiegamer forums and The Bottom Line: the bottom line isn’t necessarily the dollar. If a game sells it’s because **ordinary people** like it enough to buy it. The bottom line really is, the general public think a game is much better than we thought it was. What’s a reader to do? Who to trust? Tens of thousands of customers, or a few guys with their own highly opinionated version of what’s good?
DrDerekDoctors

MM is crap, unless you remember to visit the option screen and change from the horrible default control mode to the more sensible one, then it’s a strangely pleasant if disgracefully repetitive shooter. The laser is one of the more satisfying weapons of recent times, burning through tissue in a pleasing manner.
Albert Lai

Immortal Defense really surprised me as well. Though it’s a genre that has seemingly been done to death a thousand times on the internet (creeps follow path, build towers, this tower can hit only ground, this tower fires fast, this tower is nigh indistinguishable from other towers) Immortal Defense really breaks from the Warcraft III model of games with abilities and field effects that haven’t really been explored before.

Plus, it has an interesting storyline to boot. Interesting storyline, in my tower defense? It’s almost unheard of!
JohnB

I thought our scoring differences were funny. :-) But that’s what the panel was for, getting different opinions on games. As for Membrane Massacre, I thought it was good, throw-away fun. I have a soft spot for biology-related games, and MM hit that, which is why I gave it a higher score.

Taking the adventure out of Harvest Moon does one great thing for Alice: makes it casual. Now I don’t have to remember to visit the cave of waterfalls on a fall afternoon in order to get the bigger shovel. Don’t get me wrong, I love me some Harvest Moon, but for short bursts of similar entertainment, Alice is excellent.
Wolverine

I found Immortal Defense insanely dull to be honest. It’s presently ok enough but I got bored very quickly.

Membrane Massacre is just plain awful.
Alec

So the definition of Casual Games is taking a good game concept, then taking things out of it to the point where it its hardly a game anymore?
Pyabo

Alec, you’ve hit the nail on the head. Casual gamers do not want to THINK, they want mindless entertainment. It’s exactly why Windows Solitaire is so popuplar… it is down time for the brain.

Derek, your comments in the roundup were priceless… but I think you are a little harsh with the scores. You are once again equating games you don’t like to play with games that are bad… or at least biasing your scores that way.
Derek

Well, Pyabo, if I don’t enjoy the game it’s going to be difficult for me score it well. I don’t see any other way to do it. I gave the games a broad look before scoring them (and always do when I’m analyzing them). That is, I don’t just dismiss something because I don’t want to keep playing it.

Also, I really do enjoy basically every genre. Even “casual” (Blocksum, flOw, etc.). And if you’ll notice, I scored a shoot ’em up and platformer quite low, both genres that one would typically expect me to like, given my past history.

There’s not adequate room in the panel (< 150 words) to explain in detail why I didn't like each game, but I tried my best to get the point across.
Cas

That’s the thing – there’s not enough room to say much more. That’s because they’re not meant to be full in-depth reviews!
PHeMoX

*In the end, I felt Urban Chaos was a good â€œAverageâ€ game.*

Loool, I have to disagree hehehe, Urban *Chaos* was a way above average game! Lot’s of fun busting those criminals and driving around. ^^

Anyways, good reviews. I’m wondering what the new gametunnel ‘format’ will be like though.
moi

In after the elite fagdance.
Also, after all is said and done, the only game to receive a great note from Derek was the one by a regular on the TIGS forums.
moi

Although it did deserve first place anyway.
Derek

Cool man, have fun playing Alice Greenfingers and Turret Wars. I’m sure you’ll have a great time.

I realize that my personal bias toward thoughtfully made, fun-to-play games sometimes clouds my judgment.
Lorne T Whiting

So.. you’re saying that Derek gave it a great review was because… the guy’s a regular on the forums? I’m sorry, but I just don’t think that’s something Derek would do.
moi

I never said it was a bias, but that’s all I can see at the end of the panel.
9/10 and the closest rated games are at 7.

Maybe it’s perfectly legitimate. but I can’t help to notice that the other marks are rather harsh.
Derek

Well, me, Greg, and Cas all had a threesome with rinku, so really the entire panel is pretty suspect!

(Sorry, rinku, but you really were _that_ good!)

C’mon, though, guys! Really! The “elitist” accusation is mind-boggling to me. I’m willing to accept that I am one, but it would take a better argument then “you don’t like some games.”

And actually, I have fun even with bad games or casual games… I’m just not going to throw an “8” out there or put something in a top game list because I had a good time noodling around with it. If someone handed me a stick and a ball and told me it was an indie game, I could have a good time figuring out how to play with it, but I’m not going to give it an award.

I rate games based on their significance to the medium, entertainment value, overall quality, and how inspired they are, and I try not to give independent games too much leeway just because they’re made on smaller budgets. It’s taken into account, for sure, but for me, you don’t need large production values to be a good game.

Anyway, I’m explaining myself too much, I think. Probably because I was expecting more comments like moi’s and had some ammo ready. :)
Melly

Flame wars and orgies oh my.

MM was interesting, but it should have been far more fleshed out before it was released. ID is awesome, I have it and I love it, and I’m sure it’ll be even more awesome once it’s fully patched with a non-suckzorz Circuit point and some sexy path editing.

On the casual games topic, Blocksum makes me feel funny. In my pants.
rinkuhero

No wonder they could afford to get rid of affiliate links — they’re selling our sex tape!
Cas

At last! I’m a porn star! My childhood dreams fulfilled! Er…
moi

The elitist accusations weren’t really adressed to you Derek or your review, it was more adressed to the tone of the comments above mine. But it’s rather usual for this website and that’s why I love it ^_^

Manhugs!
rinkuhero

I didn’t see anything elitist in the comments either, except for that “people don’t play casual gamers to think” comment, which I actually think is objectively accurate, not elitist. That’s the reason people play those types of games, to relax, not to be challenged or to have an interesting new experiences or to change the way they see the world. There’s nothing wrong with that either, there are people who just play games to relax. But I don’t think such games should get a 10 just because they’re great at relaxing you.
Alec

The only comments I found elitist were “Moi”‘s. :'(
http://mooktown.blogspot.com/ papamook

For many people, certainly older-young-folk, relaxation is a much needed state of mind.

I’d give a 10 to a game that, without exception, relaxed me at any time. Bejeweled2 probably came closest to a 10 for me.

Sometimes relaxation can be hard to come by.