Preview: Serial Killer Roguelike

By: Derek Yu

On: August 26th, 2010

Update: The creator of this project has announced that it was an elaborate “hoax”. Not sure I buy that, but… in any case, you can read more about it here.

As GameSetWatch’s Eric Caoili deftly points out, someone’s gone and started working on an actual murder simulator. CrimsonKing’s Serial Killer Roguelike was originally themed after the popular HBO Showtime series Dexter, but has since turned into a more general killing game, with detailed combat that’s inspired by Dwarf Fortress. The goal is to develop the game into a full-blown crime sim that characters can (virtually) stalk their prey in (or not, as the creator notes), either as lone wack-jobs or as hitmen for organized crime factions.

In the description of the above video, CrimsonKing writes:

Keep in mind that this is a GAME, and that I am not advocating or condoning murder or any of the crimes that take place in it. I feel that the subject of serial killers, specifically the psychological conditions that drive them to do what they do, is one of interest and will hopefully translate into a unique game that has a vast number of potential options for play.

Well, what’s art and entertainment good for, if not exploring these darker themes? Personally, I think the game shows a lot of promise as a genuinely disturbing horror movie generator. But will it see a release before a U.S. senator decides to stir up some outrage over it? It is an election year, after all…

(Source: TinyCartridge)

Hit the jump for a video showing the character generation:

  • kowalski

    Despite what may think of the content, it sounds interesting to play. I frankly really dig the violent, seedy games that let people do things they would never do in real life. Why else does a game like Manhunt exist? I'm adult enough to know its a damn game, and will probably treat it as such. (Collecting body parts as if they were Nuka Cola in Fallout 3 for example, its all a game to me)

    It's already going to find a limited audience since its a rogue like, and if this explodes in the news/media, I'll be damn surprised.

  • tung

    A fascinating exploration of a confronting topic. It should be interesting to see how this turns out.

  • Dskjdkff

    uh, I don't feel alright playing this, I'm not that fucked up. I'll pass, thank youuuu

  • WhippedCarrot

    Oh wow. I had a very very very similiar for a game like this, except his execution is way better. A Roguelike is a great idea because the turn/frozen-time element gives you the ability to make calculated choices about each murder.

    I REALLY WANT TO PLAY THIS. IT LOOKS GODLIKE!

  • Nomail

    ONE OF THE BEST ROGUELIKE EVER!!!!!!!!!!

  • bombboy

    Holy SHIT this is CREEPY AS SHIT

    I like it! I also dislike it. But it looks cool.

  • Xeno

    Looks interesting – looking forward to it.
    Long live the roguelikes!

  • SSss

    Well, what’s art and entertainment good for, if not exploring KILLING PEOPLE?

  • DCSSfan

    I'm intrigued.

  • TCM

    After death, there should be a police/news report summary of your, your crimes, etc. Interviews with the family of the victims and such as well. It looks like a game that can make people very uncomfortable playing it, and I actually encourage that quality.

  • Bignelson

    Dexter is a Showtime series, not a HBO series.

  • defacid

    That is so awesome… I want to play it so bad. So bad. SO BAD. :P

    I like the vigilante cannibal combo. I would have chosen the same. Either that or blood drinker.

  • zeekthegeek

    I cannot wait to wear a skincoat made from chubby girls I kept in my basement, and dance around listening to Goodbye Horses

  • Fake

    Roguelike graphics aren't good enough to cause an outrage, thankfully.

  • Lim-Dul

    This is actually both disturbing and very interesting at the same time.

  • Bleh

    Couldn't You find another more disgusting theme? What will be the sequel? Serial Raper? Sick. What a pity for a good gameplay design.

    @defacid: search for an specialist

  • DrOctapu

    I like the nuka cola idea. Hopefully we'll be able to get some quests from a mafia boss or something, to give the game more of an objective.

  • Disgusted

    GO away Bleh. no one is telling yo to play it.

    Geez it's whiners like you is why the higer rated games aren't what they used to be years ago(THe modern ones are severy tonned down).

    TO CK: keep at it! don't be afraid to make games like this..it's always good to be able to show thay you are able to make neat games from both distubing/undistubing conent. Remember w'ere adult we have the power to choose( if not well…hmm).

  • Anonymous

    If you want to lessen the impact, consider adding options for fantasy elements, old time settings like medieval times or to play as fantasy monsters.

    If you want to play it safe, consider adding a long, detailed warning in front of the game. Though anyone that would consider using it as practice for actual murders would perhaps ignore it anyway, but it's a good courtesy regardless.

    It's kind of strange the effect something like this can have on even a healthy person, I remember getting into a weird funk after completing the assassin side quests in Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. When I was done I felt the need to restore a save game to before I even joined the Assassin's Guild.

    Anyway, hoping this doesn't cause too much drama for the creator.

  • Disgusted

    There's nothing that can be done about that on the effects bit. No matter what media it is someone going to get worped by it. hell it wouldn't be a surpise that someone starts beating people up over a heart shaped object. That;s just life.

    A disclaimer would work I believe.

  • Disgusting

    yes, someone objecting to a literal murder simulator is responsible for the state of video games today.

  • Consumatopia

    If you download and play this game, and someone close to you is murdered, and your computer is searched, you will be a suspect.

    Other than that, this game looks great.

  • Lega

    This game looks really cool. Just from the gameplay video the amount of detail included is amazing; sneaking into a house, chopping your victim up, running from the cops, etc. Of course it is very mature subject matter but I enjoy games that provide a different point of view, even if that view is extremely despicable and evil. I can't wait for this game to come out! Hopefully the developers make it detailed and random enough for many different situations to develop.

  • Blegh

    This will work on linux right? It has been too long since I had a decent indie game.

  • bleh

    Sir. Yes sir!
    And thank you very much to consider me so powerful over the game industry. Not bad for a “whiner” :)

  • Cow

    This looks very very fun. Incredible gameplay design if it lives up to that video. Consider me excited.

  • Red

    amazing idea and amazing detailed .. its a shame that when I create a game about (serial)killing, I have to apology to the world for everything, so people would not make the prime evil in their comments ..
    love this ..

  • PhasmaFelis

    This looks like a very well-designed game that I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in playing.

    This is an odd feeling, sort of seeing a beautiful, finely-crafted 14-inch dildo.

  • Nty

    wow, i wanna have a go i wanna

  • Lekon

    It's so rare to see a game so far out of left field, that looks like a real joy to play. I imagine challenge runs with being as crazy as possible and still trying to “win” would get quite odd.

    Hope the dev sticks with this one, it could be a blast to play, even if it does seem disturbing. Mixing in fantasy elements later could be pretty awesome. Or even Sci Fi, be a body snatcher for real!

  • defacid

    I like the fact that because I want to play this game I need a specialist. :D

    NOTE TO EVERYONE: IF YOU SHOW ANY EXCITEMENT FOR ANY TYPE OF MURDER-SIMULATOR YOU SHOULD BE EXAMINED FOR MENTAL STABILITY. YOUR CAPACITY FOR VIOLENT CRIMES TRIPLE FOLDS WHEN YOU PLAY GAMES OF THIS MANNER.

    I like how it's okay to kill imaginary things in video games, but killing a human is terrible. How many people protested hacking the mutated aliens in Dead Space? They were just trying to eat some food, man. :/

  • http://twitter.com/infiniteblank Infinite Blank

    I'm throwing in with the people excited about this little abomination. If the 'evading the law' system is well-done, dodging police and hiding evidence could potentially be the real meat of the gameplay, and I'm rather excited at that idea.

    I've also got an urge to try playing a perfectly ordinary (non-murdering) person and seeing what happens. If I do, and I get into a relatively innocuous fist-fight on the street or some such, will the game's characters assume I'm trying to kill someone?

  • Kenzya

    I think it's important for people who feel like this is a sick and disgusting game that they click on the “Serial Killer Roguelike” link and read what is planned for that game. It seems like it's going to be more of a GTA style sandbox game where you can be a vigilante killing innocents, criminals, cops, and whatever OR join the police force to stop criminals or a criminal faction to kill police or what have you. Maybe the player could even mix it up and join the police force as a cover and be a serial killer at night. He also wants to add a job system so the player can earn money to buy things other than weapons like real estate.

    The only issue I can see is with the scope of the game. It seems like a large undertaking. There has to be hundreds of ideas to implement.

  • The Cheshire Cat

    It's interesting how much context can change how people react to content in games. You can do far worse things with much greater graphical detail to people in lots of mainstream titles, but because you aren't explicitly being referred to as a murderer in those games, it's somehow not as bad. Bear in mind that in your average shooter you rack up a body count that even the most prolific serial killer could never hope to match. It's not all combatants or other people who “deserve” it, either; as people have mentioned, you tend to mow down quite a few civilians in the GTA style games.

    What people need to realize is that killing someone in a video game is no more immoral than punching a mannequin. Just because it superficially resembles a human doesn't make it morally equivalent to a human. It's all just little bits of data in a computer designed to react to specific inputs with specific outputs.

    Anyway, I got a bit sidetracked there, but I originally meant to post that the concept reminds me a lot of Liberal Crime Squad, which is a very tongue in cheek terrorism simulator (it was a side project by Dwarf Fortress's Tarn Adams, who released it as open source and it's being continued by someone else now). It's just so extreme that it just becomes impossible to take seriously and comes off as kind of silly (though in a way that's intentional).

  • Karma Police

    DIGUSTING!

    I felt bad and became very sad after watching this.
    What will next version have? Raping is a given, I guess, since serial killers are sad pussies, whose social issues prevents them getting some otherwise. How about child murder!?!? If that comes, I hope you will get sectioning.

  • Gaskone

    I, as someone who works in psychology, have to speak my mind. Only two words come to them.

    FRIGGIN…. Awesome.

    Games are games. I am an AVID gamer, and really, all the talk of people becming violent over games is most likely bunk, as someone who uses a video game as a catalyst to violent behavior will almost always use tv, their parents, other people, or whatever else they see as a catalyst. The reason video games get thrashed is because people think that because we enact the violence on the screen itself, we will be more prone to thinking that it is going to affect us in real life. As someone who played LOADS of mario, I can give you my word of honor that not once have I ever smashed my head on a block, expecting a fire flower to come out, or have I ever stepped on turtles expecting points to come out. Same basic premise here people, theres no reason to be alarmed, and I for one am going to donate money to this guy, as he is making a very very neat niche game that satisfies that darker sense of humor I have.

  • zeekthegeek

    I think Crimson King is american so there is no legal recourse for making a video game, which is legally covered under the First Amendment as an expression of Speech.

    And he has stated he is actually against rape being in his game, the man deifnitely has morals.

  • Dodger

    Violence has been around in movies and video games for quite some time now, however the graphic nature of violent video games has changed dramatically over the past decade. It's not a matter of whether a game is too violent or the subject matter is too controversial, it comes down to who is and who should be playing these types of video games? Can anyone get their hands on them?

    I don't really care about the subject matter in video games as long as they're aimed at the appropriate age group. I play a lot of violent video games (God of War, Gears of War, GTA series, Call of Duty, Silent Hill, Resident Evil, etc. etc.) I really don't care whether a game is violent or not, what I do care about is who gets their hands on them. I'm an advocate for creative freedom in video games, however, I'm also an advocate trying to limit the access of violent and / or disturbing video games and keeping them away from children. As an adult I'm able to decide for myself what I want to play and what I enjoy in a game, however, my children aren't old enough to decide what's best for them. I really don't know at what age disturbing content could be or should be both acceptable and available, but I do believe that young people between the ages of 12 – 16 cannot properly handle or process the disturbing elements in video games. I think this is especially evident when playing online shooters where the lines between age ranges seem to be totally blurred. Personally I love jumping into Modern Warfare 2 online occasionally to have a few matches and I've noticed that there are far more young kids playing online (and using headsets – with no lack of profanity and much lack of respect for other players). I don't know who the parents are that are letting their kids play these games, but because of the current state of “online” gaming, I truly believe that video games should not only be rated (so that they can also be enjoyed properly by adults) but the law should also be involved and enforced in making sure that games made for Mature audiences aren't sold to minors, not just in one state or district, but in all states and countries. Young audiences don't need games to be violent to be fun. I know this for a fact because I was a kid once and video games rarely got more violent than Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden, Shinobi, and (insert your favorite 80's – 90's game here). Splatterhouse was about as violent as mainstream console games got (in terms of grotesque horror), and in all honesty, the series never really made for that memorable of an experience though.

    To me, the serial killer roguelike really is no different from the Splatterhouse series. To me it's another game that's simply taking controversial subject matter and trying to put a roguelike spin on it. I really see nothing wrong with it, but back to my main point, I don't believe the content is for younger audiences – which is probably evident by some of the immature comments made by some people. Lets be honest, the mature teenagers are few and far between and they usually make up part of a niche themselves, but for the most part the average teenager is immature, sexually repressed and confused (which is enough in itself to signal an alert that young people who fall into this category cannot and should not handle this kind of material), and they can rarely make appropriate decisions for themselves, especially when it comes to thoughtfulness and understanding.

    So I don't believe that just because a game is violent or contains controversial subject matter that it should be banned, I do believe however, that entertainment this type of entertainment should be limited to young audiences. There really is only one way of doing this when it comes to the PC and that means that the parents have to monitor their kids while they're using the PC, plain and simple. I will also be fair, adults are far from perfect and there are plenty of messed up adults out in the world, but the real issue is kids (yes, even young teens up to 15) cannot properly decide for themselves, so hopefully most families have a parent or two that care enough about their kids and young teens to monitor what is going on around their kids and into their young minds. Better to teach them properly first so that when they do participate in something fictitious, they appreciate it for exactly what it is. It's a tough job parents have and not a time to be lazy or complacent even though they think their kids are all grown up because they've got hair on their legs or wear make-up. It's a hard job, but it's a necessary one to promote, teach, and practice healthy habits BEFORE allowing them to do the things that they want to do. At least then there can be some sort of confidence and hope within the family that when their sons and daughters are old enough to enjoy mature entertainment such as violent video games they can be more at ease knowing that they've taught their kids the difference between fact, fantasy and fiction, which also encourages thoughtful thinking on the sons or daughters part which also helps instill a certain amount of self respect.

  • Vania

    Such poor imagination…

    I suggest being able to cut someone's limb and then cauterize to keep him alive.
    Being able to buy a home and keep someone in a pit…
    Maybe even build complex torture mechanisms like jigsaw!

    So many fun possibilities!

  • Al3xand3r

    A roguelike that does stealth gameplay better than actual stealth games? Want. It should also be somewhat simpler than usual to play, right? Having sort of logical rules and not arbitary rpg skills and levels? Though I suppose you still level your sneaking and what not?

    I hope he adds modes that restrict gameplay in order to make a more compelling experience, as opposed to the often wide open nature of roguelikes.

    For example, what if your character has to keep a job (simplified, just something you need to spend a few turns on, not to actually do some complex work, and it could be day job or night shift depending on your character's needs) to earn money and pay rent for an appartment, pay for the tools needed for this “hobby”, have the need to eat and sleep, and so on and so forth.

    That could lead to interesting situations like a murder that takes longer than usual due to a mishandled plan means you have less time to cover your tracks before needing to go to work (or people get suspicious) or to your home to sleep (or you fall asleep at work, making people suspicious) etc. Which means that you leave more evidence behind as you hurry (for example, you don't clean your shoes too well and leave a blood trail to your house that the cops depending on their awareness may or may not notice, or perhaps to not do that, instead of clean them, you take them off and leave them at the scene, which could somehow be connected to you, for example if some neighbour sees you get in your house barefoot if he's not sleeping).

    And the various traits you can choose would mean you get bonuses or negatives to such situations. A cannibal doesn't need to waste turns to go buy food for example (as long as he kills often enough), whle other characters need that every so often.

  • Devarnodick

    AGREE
    In almost every video game ever you are a serial killer. Mario mercilessly murdered hundreds of mushroom men and duck things by stomping their brains into paste. The only difference is that in Serial Killer Roguelike they CALL you a serial killer.

  • Guest

    I think it's comments like this that make people react poorly to these sort of ideas. It's not really helpful.

  • Karma Police

    When the FAMILY EXPANSION comes!!! What about some child molesting!!!! And whos up for some child mutilating!?!? How about this: Serve parents some children -soup, made from their own heirs!!! Thats recycling at its best. Let them produce their own food.

  • Gaskone

    When I was a kid and played Ultima 6 I did just that, I remember chopping up the kings wife or something and putting herlegs into a large soup vat, hahahah. Fun times, Ive onl ever killed four people so you cant blame video games!

  • gugu

    after reading a few comments (specifically a comment about the author not wanting to include rape due to moral reasons) i got increasingly disturbed thinking about what the author wants to portray.

    when watching the video i was impressed and excited, i've always been fascinated but equally appalled by serial killers and their actions. we're constantly being fed more and more violence in different forms of media, to say that we're not becoming more desensitized would be utter fallacy.
    if you censor yourself or let your morals come in the way you are only assisting in coating yet another violent theme in sugar. adding something like rape doesn't mean that it needs to be descriptive and detailed, but it is a valid component in a game about individuals whose crimes are often sexual in nature.

    i found music on the title screen and the particle blood effects in the game to be completely unnecessary (i'm guessing that's the only particle effect in the game; maybe a few blood tiles would suffice?), it only helps in glamorizing the actual killing.

    i could go on for a long rant about this but i don't have the energy. i'd like for the author to think hard about what kind of feeling he would like to give the player after committing a murder, though.

  • gugu

    accidentally liked this when wanting to write a reply. there should be a dislike button for those of us with a happy trigger finger.

  • Karma Police

    ehhh..If you could chose, would you rather be mutilated and killed, instead of raping?

    Definately no morals, what so ever.

    The sneaking and escaping cops is very intriguing, something I have always dreamed about, but the context SHOULD(or must) be different. You absolutely could make this game so, that you COULD do all things explained in that video, but would not the purpose of the game, and the player would have to make the moral choices him self. For example, the player could be a thief, who sneaks into houses and is driven into solving insidious conspiracy of greedy politics.

  • bradf

    If you don't like the idea, just don't play it.
    It looks like a fun, gross and disturbing game and I look forward to playing it. Playing the villian, or putting yourself in a monster's shoes is always interesting and fun.

  • Guest

    I've taken billions of virtual lives in games, and been exposed to who knows how many other fictional deaths in other media, but I think it is difficult to be truly desensitized to violence. For one thing, media depictions of violence are either so sanitized you eventually don't feel anything for what you know to be, for example, a performance by an actor, or so over the top that it's actually absurd. If any of you think you are desensitized to violence, go try to watch the 3Guys1Hammer video. I didn't watch more than a few minutes of it. Watching something like that, you'll feel powerful emotions no fictional work can truly reproduce. (Warning for the curious and squeamish: it is a recording of the extremely brutal torturing and killing of one of the victims from the real life serial killers known as the Dnepropetrovsk maniacs. On the one hand I want to warn people away from watching something like that, but on the other hand, I think people, especially those so interested in a game like this, need to see this to truly understand, among other things, what goes on in the world they live in, what people are capable of doing to one another, and what a real murder looks like).

  • Karma Police

    If you like the idea, talk to some one and take some medication.

    I'm all for freedom of speech, which this game is not about. This kind of immorality is contagious and ultimately dangerous as media all over the place is one piece at a time going more and more brutal, which affects the mind of society.

    About the talk about someone defending the developer of this game, because he was leaving raping away, because morality issues: If you could chose, would you rather be mutilated and killed, instead of raping? Which one fate would you chose for your children and family?

    Definately no morals, what so ever. This is pure evil and worst case of attention whoring, that I have ever seen! You will get attention, and I guess you can benefit from it in some way, and that is disgusting. You will also make another stain in my hobby, that is already talked in bad way in media.

    The sneaking and escaping cops is very intriguing, something I have always dreamed about in games, but the context SHOULD(or must) be different. NOT THIS EVIL and SICK! You absolutely could make this game so, that you COULD do all things explained in that video, but would not the purpose of the game, and the player would have to make the moral choices him self. For example, the player could be a thief, who sneaks into houses and is driven into solving insidious conspiracy of greedy politics.

    Make options for the people, who gets a boner for this kind of game, to get into therapy, and also get some therapy yourself, while making it.

  • WhippedCarrot

    Have you watched Dexter before? You should.

  • Karma Police

    Why? Its stupid teenage show.

  • TCM

    Man.

    Watch Monster, or something.

  • bradf

    You should try playing some games or reading a book sometime. Sure they get some bad press sometimes, but they can actually be pretty good!

  • zeekthegeek

    This argument would make more sense if you know, people were really being mutilated and raped because of a video game. It's a pointless comment at this point :P

    As for the other stuff you mentioned: a lot of that is planned. It will very much be an open world game full of choices. You will have a day job and will be CHOOSING whether you're killing hardened criminals or school children or in between, and you will be able to sneak into homes at night without murdering. There will also be things like working as a mob hitman and who knows what else by the time CK gets done – feature creep is going to be hard for him to control.

  • zeekthegeek

    Your argument would only be valid if this game killed real people when you clicked the button. Nobody is getting killed and mutilated, this is a video game. Perhaps you are the disturbed individual here if you're having trouble separating reality from fiction.

    And yes, the moral choices are 100 percent up to the player in this game, you could theoretically make a character who does not :P

  • zeekthegeek

    And here we have even further proof: you literally have no idea what you're talking about and are incredibly sheltered from the media apperently.

  • Karma Police

    I read lots of books. You too should.

  • bradf

    I re-read your post. I'm kicking myself for not realising this sooner:

    “…this kind of immorality is contagious”
    “…affects the mind of society”
    “…another stain in my hobby…”
    “…insidious conspiracy of greedy politics”

    Very nicely done!

  • Karma Police

    “Most likely”…not.

    But when the first human being is killed just for shit and giggles, because morality of society has lowered enough, because of attention whoring and making better business in media, the opposition of this thread, and the avid gamers, that are not in defence mode immediately, when someone raises even slight hint of critique against their beloved hobby-
    (which you CAN critisize, its not in danger to go anywhere. And you gamers are only getting older, so your moms will not be taking your computers away in couple of years. So make critical observations, and make games better, alongside the whole wolrd.), -are remembered as being very wise, but then it will be too late.

    If you really are “someone who works in psychology”, then you should know that the mechanics you described there, are not how it works.

    I'm professor of psychology. I know, that collective mind of human kind has brutalized very rapidly in 20 years, partly because of media. I am also avid gamer, and I think games are best and most effective medium because its interactive nature. Because of that, it also should be much more dutiful. Media in general makes people scared, morale is lowered and people are getting TOO self centric.

  • zeekthegeek

    Proof or it didn't happen. The Professor of psychology bit I mean. And Bob Jones University doesn't count; you come off as a real whackjob in this thread, especially claiming that people are not capable of critical thinking on their own about a god damn videogame.

  • zeekthegeek

    Some clarifications made by CK on the RPS article:

    I never claimed that this was going to be a point for point simulation of serial murder, or that the psychological traits would (or should) accurately mirror their real life counterparts in my game. It seems to me, based on the feedback I’ve received thus far, that most people want a degree of dark humor in the game. That’s what I’m going for. Apologies if you are expecting a hard core psychological simulation, but that simply won’t be the case. I should have clarified that fact in my last post.

    In addition to the gruesome things that you can do, I want people, in game, to be doing all sorts of insanely campy things. I want them to cut off their own arms and attach hooks to them. I want them to see LP’s where they stalk and attack the same guy with a spoon countless times over (and at the worst of times) without being caught.

    And keep in mind that it’s a project that began with no clear design goals (and I, initially, was not going to release it anyway), that I’m (obviously) not a professional game designer and that this is the first complex game that I have worked on! And yes, you are correct in that my initial focus has been on the combat. All I really wanted to do from the start was have a game with similar (but more descriptive) combat mechanics than DF, and that evolved into using the system for a game based on Dexter.

  • defacid

    Wow, Karma Police, you are the only one defending your stance and you're not even bringing up legitimate arguments.

    1. Noone has been or will be murdered through the actions of this game.
    2. You seem to be the one who is unable to separate reality from fiction – to regard this game as “evil” is just childish.
    3. Studies have shown, as well as the statement of everyone I know that plays violent videogames, that games of this nature actually reduce the urge to commit violent acts.

    I can understand wanting to limit children from violent media, but that isn't what this discussion is about. >_>

  • zeekthegeek

    Funniest part of Karma Police is comparing his first post on here (and other posts on his Disqus account) to the one where he claims he is a Psychology Professor. Obvious troll is obvious.

  • Karma Police

    Like how do you suggest, that people should identify themselves in internet? And do you think, that I would reveal my personal details in internet, and especially in serial killer conversation, nope, zeekthegeek , I'm not doing that.

    Most individuals are well capable of “critical thinking on their own about a god damn videogame”. Some are less so, don't generalize. And as you perhaps read, I didn't talk about how media affects for certain individual, I am talking about their effects to society.

    “If you were really a professor you would also probably know that western rates of violent crimes are actually down year for year. “
    Proof or it didn't happen. Perhaps you can reveal that bit of “proof”, since it is not personal detail. And I'm not talking about shoplifting and pickpocketing either. Were not afraid of those.

  • defacid

    You are very reactionary and emotional for someone who should take a professional view of this topic, if you really are a professor. Calling it 'evil' and attacking another person's morals, especially one who has done no wrong as far as you are concerned, is something I see akin to sophomoric attacks because you are uncomfortable with the unfamiliar rather than defending what you believe is right.

  • zeekthegeek

    http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
    Source: The Federal Bureau of Investigation.

  • zeekthegeek

    Not to mention his poor spelling, grammar and logical fallacies, all things a university educated individual would probably know a bit more about.

    I also don't believe a real professor really has the time to post essays on TigSource but I could be wrong.

  • WTF

    Dude, get help. That's sick.

  • TCM

    Oh man, two people who both dislike the idea are going to fight over sarcasm. Brilliant.

  • defacid

    Amazing, isn't it?

  • Guest

    “I'm all for freedom of speech, which this game is not about. This kind of immorality is contagious and ultimately dangerous as media all over the place is one piece at a time going more and more brutal, which affects the mind of society.”

    You obviously have no idea what free speech is all about. Perhaps you would be more comfortable in an extremist Islamic society? I hear there's always more need for morality police in Iran.

  • Karma Police

    Does this game have anything to do with freedom of speech? How? What is it then? Why do you think, I want Islamic, or anything other extreme? Why do you think, the extreme is only way?

    Have you ever heard of golden mean?

    I see, your getting there though. Keep thinking.

  • Karma Police

    4. You either read, what I wrote, or don't just understand.
    5. Actually “limiting children from violent media” is partly, what this discussion is about, although I didn't write about that either.

  • defacid

    First of all, that comment made no sense. Second – You do realize he's calling you the extremist, right? Third – Lern 2english

  • zeekthegeek

    It is almost impossible to read what you wrote, your grammar is bottom tier, 'professor'

  • defacid

    Wow… what are you doing? Why are you adding to my list AND why aren't you responding to what I said? Is English you're second language, and I mean that with no disrespect as I did in an earlier comment, because you aren't really responding in a way that makes sense. :P

    So…
    4. I read what you wrote… I think thats what you were trying to say. :P
    5. Where in the post does this have ANYTHING to do with children? At all? I've seen people bring it up in comments that were blatantly off topic but children have nothing to do with this game. And if you want to limit violent media, go ahead but telling the creator he's warped and everybody who plays his game needs to be evaluated is not the same thing. I'm done arguing with you because either you're too dense to understand what I'm typing or you don't understand English well, I can't tell and it's just getting to the point of stupidity and redundancy now. >_>

  • zeekthegeek

    Holy crap you guys the entire thread has been for nothing: the entire thing was a fairly well played out Hoax on behalf of a bored troll. The gameplay videos were hashed out in Flash quickly. Check his YouTube account or the thread on the Bay12Games forums for proof from him.

    Well played sir, well played.

  • http://twitter.com/slashie_ Santiago Zapata

    We have been fooled, Derek… or were you part of the “experiment”? :D

  • defacid

    Dude… that sucks. I really wanted to play that game. Ah, well… back to Dwarf Fortress it is… :P

  • WhippedCarrot

    Oh wow so this game doesn't exist? I want to make it now :P

  • DrOctapu

    That was his intended reaction to announcing he was a troll. I have proof over at the temple and bay12.

  • WhippedCarrot

    Yeah I read the posts over there. Pretty badass.

  • DrOctapu

    I know. Unfortunately toadyone and threetoe banned me. IP, in fact. I'll be unable to post screenies of the Inbox as well.

  • Al3xand3r

    Sucks if it's a fake. I hope someone makes such a roguelike inspired by this then. Or even something more mainstream, less ascii based, with an engine similar to Introversion's new thing… Though I suppose that would limit actions if they had to be represented with more than just text so I guess roguelike could be best.

  • WhippedCarrot

    That's one of the problems with having graphics. I had actually thought of a similar game to this 'mockup' before but more dexter-like. You would have free-roamed around a neighbourhood and been able to go into people's houses and do what you wanted. But after seeing this roguelike it makes a lot more sense to do it in that format because the turnbased/paused element allows you enough freedom to make choices that realtime gameplay wouldn't allow.

    And as you said, there's no need for a huge amount of assets to cover all of the possible actions.

  • zeekthegeek

    This is the main reason I think that stuff like Dwarf Fortress will never have convincing graphics. Nobody really wants to go into the level of detail necessary to show every possibility that the text describes.

  • Simonsays

    It makes no sense. Why pull the plug so early if it was a prank? Why not draw it out and try to get some actual press attention? It wouldn't be the first time an indie game has reached the media. Look at Super Columbine RPG. This Crimson King guy could've made a fake video with actual rape in it or something if it was his intention to troll.

    I think he couldn't stand or didn't like the early controversy it was generating so he made up a bunch of lies to cover his tracks.

  • DrOctapu

    It probably wasn't. He was an odd person, and he probably has his own reasons.

  • Kenzya

    And what's so funny or troll worthy about the game being originally about Dexter.

  • Al3xand3r

    What controversy would get to him? Posters like Karma? That's just lol worthy. Even if someone makes a video of the most awesome game ever, some troll is bound to show up and speak against it… Or did some pretentious pricks with actual weight on some (still most likely very niche) communities speak negatively about this project? That's sad if so, but he should still just ignore them, much like Karma should be ignored…

  • defacid

    Yeah, I don't think he was trolling. That is too much time and effort put into a fake game… and he kept going on with ideas that weren't necessary to make the story believable… Why would a troll waste his time with that? Plus, like someone said earlier, he could have made this bigger and got more attention.

    I think someone chickened out because of opposition or because the scale was too great and he knew he could not handle a game of this proportion.

  • Stupid Wife

    His stupid wife told him to quit, thats the only explanation he gave me.

  • Mike Hunt

    New TIGS competition: Serial Killer Games

  • Frabble

    So it turns out that this is a fake.

  • DrOctapu

    That's actually a pretty cool idea.

  • zeekthegeek

    He said the game doesn't exist, the videos were Flash mock-ups.

  • defacid

    I know he SAID that but that's what I think actually happened.

  • Hamster

    I hate this guy. Gives us hope for an interesting, original roguelike and then what? Turns out it was a fucking troll! I hope somebody will pick up the idea and make an actual game…

  • Fake

    What are you doing when you play Risk? Does detachment make things better, or worse? Call a spade a spade, or a murder simulator a murder simulator.

  • The Grinning Bandit

    I agree so completely with this.

    Why is murder okay when we simulate it on a scale of dozens (Dawn of War, Company of Heroes), hundreds (most RTSes), or thousands (most grand strategy games)?

    All those little pixelated/polygonal soldiers presumably have lives, personalities, loves, children – and they were probably drafted, conscripted, or otherwise forced into serving, to boot. Why do we only get uncomfortable when we scale things down to the individual level?

    Hell, I'd like to see a war game in this same theme. Playing a lone soldier who has to go from house to house, clearing out enemy insurgents, and seeing their spouses and children and family heirlooms right in front of you.

  • Cam

    From what I've read this whole thing was a hoax. CrimsonKing was asked why:

    “Because I can? Do trolls need legitimate reasons to do what they do? It was fun and I was bored. I didn’t use an existing game as a template and I made the videos using flash. Didn’t take that long, maybe an hour for the first game play footage. Much less for the other one. The response was extremely positive though. Didn’t expect that. I figured I’d run with it anyway, throwing out possible game play elements. Why not?”

  • AfterShave

    That's a really good idea, let's find someone to make this real! :D

  • orlandofurioso

    So who makes this game now? Seriously someone has got to do it.

  • Karma Police

    Actually I think, that making this as a hoax, is EXELLENT idea and psychological litmus test.

  • Fisherino

    At least he is a very great fucking troll

  • modred11

    if this is indeed just a hoax, this article should be updated with that information. I suggest linking to http://www.roguetemple.com/2010/08/29/the-seria… as that seems to be a good source for the information, plus it links to a bunch of other threads on other forums and stuff.

  • Drclef

    Why was this just a hoax? The author is a douche! But thanks for the inspiration, this is actually a nice and original idea! I shall write a murder simulation like this sometime! With psychopathic skills and all! Awesome!

  • TheCrimsonKing

    Half of me did it for the laughs, the other half contemplated that someone might actually be inspired to make the game (or something extremely similar) if I acted like enough of a weird asshole at the end of it. Think about it, it would hardly have gotten any attention had I just dumped it in a thread with the title of “My mock up roguelike game”.

    Take a look over at the Dwarf Fortress forums. A bunch of them are already trying to scrounge up a crime based roguelike. It will probably fail but hey, doesn't really atter either way. I found the whole thing rather humerus and it only cost my a couple of hours of my time.

  • tky

    Can we get both of these videos rehosted for reference? ;o

  • Mike Hunt

    Humerus is a bone.
    Coincidence?

  • Psycomega

    I figure anyone looking here won't see this, but this was proven as fake, as many have pointed out. Most importantly though, a couple of people on the site that shall not be named banded together in a thread and came up with this: http://skrogue.wordpress.com/

    Looks promising so far.

  • Karma Police

    It made sense and I realized that, which you should have been figured out, if you commented my comment. You do read comments of opposition, before just spamming new comments without new substance, no?

    I'm not english. There are professors outside of america too, no? Can I still partisipate on discussion? Is my point of view nullified, if I have slight grammar issues, or are you just trying to gain credibility to your cause by nitpicking, nitpicker? How about conversating about the substance, that others have showed in their comments? How many languages you can write with?

    What does this imaginary game have to do with freedom of speech? Yes, noda. How am I extremist, if I want a little sense in serial killing game (in a way I explained) whos author was also talking about including raping in youtube. And I was only talking about children, for christ sake!!!

    Actually this site reacted to my opinions with such immaturity and hot headed closed-mindedness, that it does remind a bit of islamic tolerance.

    Very immature of tigsoource. Shame on you.

  • defacid

    I'm not nitpicking, none of what you said made sense. And as I said, you are too dense to understand the viewpoints of others so this argument is null. It is, of course, very mature to claim that things you don't understand are evil and everyone who doesn't share your belief is immoral. Now, I'm done.

    I fart in your general direction, poophead.

  • Me
  • Karma Police

    Pot calling the kettle black.

    I understand what others said, and I don't disagree with everything written here and I acknowledge other opinions and viewpoints, but you are in denialmode. You are not even trying to understand, you are just nitpicking, because you see grammatical errors and put them ahead of real arguments.
    Games are holy to you, and if ever someone dares to voice even some slight concerns about your beloved hobby, you act like terrorist.

    If none, what I have written makes no sense, please by all means explain me the magnificant manifest, that this imaginary game was going to make in the name of freedom of speech. I was asking this days ago, and all I got is complaining about grammar(which is not perfect here anyway as people are very informal in this kind of forums) and ignorance in defence.

    And again, I was mainly talking about children. I fear that day, when peoples emotions get so weak, that they don't feel bad identifying them selves as characters, who kills families for their pleasure. I KNOW that games don't change people to anything else in matter of seconds and I KNOW that violent behaviour, like drunken fights has decreased relatively to population, BUT, get this: The much, much more fearsome violence has increased like an explotion! School shooting is almost weekly event novadays. I was talking about the social mind and how media affects that. I'm seeing that people are slowly getting more self centric and caring about other people is becoming abnormal.

    defacid has stained his name with involuntary spamming and I guess his behaviour tells something of effects of games(just kidding). But immature he is. Very much so.

  • Guest

    Whether or not the game developer wants to think about how this game can force people to open their eyes, this is a game that does so. See the reaction it has gotten here already? Look at all of the comments about wanting a fantasy option to tone down the game. There are already games more advanced than this! But if I'm killing a dwarf or an elf, somehow that makes a bloodthirsty desire for murder okay? It'd be hypocritical of someone to squick at playing this and then croon over their victories in Dwarf Fortress's Adventure Mode, for instance. In that game I can gouge out a child's eyes, strangle him to death, then beat his own siblings to death with his body. But it's okay to be bloodthirsty if it's against elves, right?

    Freedom of speech is about the exchange of ideas. The only tasteless thing I find about this game is the inclusion of real serial killers – and even then I wouldn't censor it, because I don't think I or anyone else should play morality police to complete strangers. You want to guide someone's morals? Throw away your television set and spend some time with your children. People lazy enough to let mass media babysit their children should not be complaining about the content of that media.

    A link to violent video games and school shootings has never been proven. You can link school violence to things like child-safe toys (they sure weren't safe before the 90's! Anyone else remember rusty, jagged metal Tonka trucks? How about lawn darts?) or an increase in the use of artificial sweeteners and high fructose corn syrup. The coincidental rise of two things simultaneously does not equal a causal relationship. I could blame an increase in school shootings on Hong Kong no longer being under British control! Linking the two is some heavy-duty, FOX NEWS sensationalism. You do know that political correctness has only really been a development since WW2, right? That children got to see things like mass homeless, lynchings, and even executions in person prior to the reactionary movements many countries had after the second world war? No? Because you're just speaking out of your desire to be a moral policeman, and not your desire to actually use your brain.

    This game has a valuable lesson to teach for those of us capable of using our brains. Should an immature child be allowed to play it? I don't think so. It's stupid to harass the developer until the game isn't allowed, just for that one child, though. People should be responsible enough that if they have children, they take an active interest in screening what material their child has access to. If they can't be that responsible then they should not be having children. Blunting society to make up for the lack of lazy parenting is not the solution to anything.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_63SOFOEWEAWRPB6PLJWSXL5TBE Trevor

    I just found out it was a fake, as well. It was a great prank, though I do hope the REAL project produces a cool game.

  • juice

    This may have been a hoax, but there is a similar game already out in the wild – or at least Xbox Live Indie Games: Hypno Vol. 1. To quote my own review of said game (full version available here *plug*plug*: http://www.xboxindiegames.co.uk/review.html?reviewee=hypnovol1 )

    Hypno Vol.1 deserves an award: behind it's simple, monochrome interface lies one of the most disturbing game concepts I've seen for a while.

    The premise for the game is fairly simple: you play the part of Lydia, a psychotic telepath with the ability to manipulate people's minds…

    People are represented by dots: black dots are normal people while the dots for people you've manipulated are green and dead bodies are red. Manipulating people is actioned by firing up your psychic powers – anyone within range of your power will stop in the street, allowing you to walk up and start working on them.

    Implanting commands can be done to anyone you encounter – including those you've previously brainwiped. Commands take the form of a simple sentance and can be chained together – for instance, you can command someone to walk into the bar, buy a bottle of beer and then walk out of the bar and kill the first person they meet, before killing themselves. To maintain the level of grotesqueness, each death is accompanied by a highly detailed pencil drawing, presented in inverted colours – save for the occasional splash of red.

  • http://www.fridge.gr/author/zb/ Zyklon B

    I generally think many people tend to be “politically correct” for the sake of geing politically correct. I am fascinated by both the serial killer theme (if it was not a hoax) and the degree of freedom such a game would give.

    The serial killer theme is interesting from a psychopathology viewpoint. Its rather interesting seeing what makes people “tick” ,especially what makes people “tick” in a societally extreme way.You dont have to live in your mother's basement and wear her clothes when she is away, pretending to be nursin back to health kittens you have killed , to appreciate it.You dont have to be SICK in real life to like it.

    The degree of freedom for me is something i always appreciated in games, many times i find myself not wanting to play towards a preset goal but rather building my own story the way i used to do when i was a toddler .Hmmm, in a way, given that as a toddler i wouldnt pickle people for fun and make altars out of their intestines. Eitherway a “sandbox” feel is almost always a “must” for me in games , even a “false hint” towards it can work miracles, for example look at Grow series where even “loosing” can be fun because “you did your thing”.

    Ok , got to go now mama does not allow me to stay in her computer past 24:00, i have to return to my basement. See you around folks!